I'm Smitten with a Kitten: Advice Wanted

[Johnny Fever]

I was running down a rabbit hole looking for a totally different post of mine and came back across this thread, which was totally unexpected as I thought it was inadvertently lost when I requested a user name change in the forum to lessen the likelihood of anyone (especially the subject of this thread) from discovering me. While details regarding this target was pretty much wrapped up in my journal I wanted to close this thread, unfortunately not with the ending I would have wanted.

Back in June of 2023, my 'kitten' told me her position with my employer was eliminated. Sadly, they told her a day after she renewed her lease on her apartment. I was sad to know I wouldn't see her around the office but somewhat excited that I could approach her without using H.R. against me

Her last day I was able to convince her to let me stay in contact with her on my personal cell number. I was fortunate enough to squeeze a number of hugs from her on her last day in the office (unfortunately I had thought I missed her last day so I only had donned Taboo for that day). I had gotten a couple of job leads for her and some general chat but wasn't able to convince her to meet up for lunch or other meal.

A couple of weeks ago one of the ladies that worked with her had lunch and found out she is moving to the other side of the country for a job opportunity.

In the last months I heard from her twice, wishing a Happy Thanksgiving and New Year with an animated meme. In her last text I tried to get her to interact more, mentioning my recovery from a recent surgery. I would have expected to ask about what sort of surgery but I got a very vanilla response that she was glad that I recovered. It was this last text that gave me the revelation that I was more into her than she is into me. With that, I deleted her contact and blocked her on my phone. With her moving it's pretty much a given that I'm likely never to see her again. I also deleted all digital memories of her that I had, including audio and video recordings I had of her.

Sort of sad in a way, but I realize that I need to focus on the new year, new opportunities. I'm somewhat doubtful I'll run across someone with all her qualities but to quote a line from Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart's song I Wonder What She's Doin' Tonight, "... but I tell myself I didn't lose her, cause you can't lose a friend you never had.

While organic dating hasn't worked well for me in recent years I figured I'll try the apps once again. Granted, I'm not counting on much, but for all my friends who harass me about not trying, I can at least show them the apps on the phone, which will make them back off.

[Mad Scientist]

Hehehe, that is one weird way to build confidence, but strangely true.

There is a saying, "Show me a hot woman, and i will show you the guy who is tired of fucking her". It means that no matter how hot and out of reach you think a girl is, once you are constantly near her for years and years, you will soon see how normal she is to your level, and will even get tired of her.

So why think a woman you dont even know, is automatically out of your league ? Why not be a man, grow a sack, and try to get to know her, you will soon realise how normal it is to talk to a beautiful woman.

[Indi-player]

Lol I remember I said that to a good friend of mine when I was just starting, someone being out of my league and his response was " yup, she probably shits crystals and doesnt squat when she takes that shit". It was his weird ass method of trying to help me build confidence when I felt intimidated in my teens.

It always Worked and, in a weird ass way, whenever I feel any doubt about an approach, i remember his weird ass talk.

[Mad Scientist]

LOL, i think he is just quoting you.

[Mad Scientist]

Isn't the whole "out of my league" something that's just a self-limiting misconception? I've been with women who were much higher educated than myself, but they saw my personality shine through and I had warmed up to them. Then again, my recent target has her doctorate, so who knows if that had any bearing on my recent outcome.

I personally agree its self limiting too, no offense pun intended. I dont really care anymore (since i have developed myself tremendously) how educated, high status, hot and beautiful a woman is. What i care most is if i can have a good time with her, what is her personality, etc. Looking at a woman as "out of your league" immediately puts you in a lower value than her, even before you even said hi. With that attitude, no wonder so many guys are afraid to approach a beautiful and highly educated/smart woman. Dont let yourself be blocked by such mental deficiencies.

And personally, that hottie turning you down is never about her having a P.hd Billy, i assure you.

[Muestereate]

I didn't say they were out of your league, I said they are out of mine.

[Johnny Fever]

I'm actually really turned on by girls with PHD's though they are out of my league.

Isn't the whole "out of my league" something that's just a self-limiting misconception? I've been with women who were much higher educated than myself, but they saw my personality shine through and I had warmed up to them. Then again, my recent target has her doctorate, so who knows if that had any bearing on my recent outcome.

[Mad Scientist]

Just to clarify, my point was that the guys with the most status, power and social proofings are almost always the first picking in a group of men, ahead of the lesser guys. This does not mean women are only interested in the Alpha guys. Just an example to point out that women indeed are very attracted to high status.

As for the generalizations, of course we cant generalize all men or women by a single point of thought. But it is useful to make some generalizations to make a conclusive point many times, thats all i meant.

And LOL with the inferior women, come on, when do i ever said this ? Haha. I simply stated that women are attracted to status/social proof/power more than just good looks, whereas men are mainly attracted to good looks, more than just a high status girl. I just meant that a man will look first and foremost at a womans body and face to be attracted, not her status. And i too am attracted with an intelligent woman. But cant stand the bitchy, bossy, dominating, catty high status women who try to boss a man around, thats all i meant.

[Muestereate]

I don't think women are only drawn to the leader of the pack except for the few days in the month when they are ovulating. My beliefs are that what they are attracted to are in part their hormonal balance and that you can't dump all women into one box. You are limiting yourself to women that think they are inferior to you. She improves her genetic line but you, following this line of reasoning actually dilute yours by breeding with someone, at least to you is your inferior. I'm actually really turned on by girls with PHD's though they are out of my league. I like the strong corporate women and lawyers too. I do detest the scrappy catty wannabees though. Its not really detest perse but I guess not turned on. They have an inner beauty but their striving is covering it up.

[Mad Scientist]

Well, the truth is every human being desires status or recognization, male or female. But if we look at the attraction side categorically, why do women always seek out a man or get most attracted to the leader of the pack, the guy with power and influence, the men with status, and not the men who hover around the leader in a group setting? Why are the men around the status leader second pickings ?

Because the man with power and status are the men with the most social proofing, the man who can give her the most excitement which is biologically wired in her, the man who can lead her in life when she needed it,the man who can take care of her and her future offsprings. The man with the most status and power provides her this, and many more, thus women are attracted to power and status. I dont know where you get the idea that women dont desire our status, but that is a completely wrong analysis on your part. Womens first pick will always be a man with the most social proof and status/power.

As for women secretly desiring power, i dont disagree with this. Why wont they. But if we look at the attraction side again categorically, men are not attracted to the women with the most status/power. In fact, men are often turned off/intimidated by such women. But men are biologically turned on by the most physically beautiful and appealing female body, because that provides him the best chance to further his descent, which is also biologically programmed in a man.

And as for the Alpha traits, i have a feeling that you are confusing the Alpha male trait with those of a typical bad boy wannabees and pick up artists. Being Alpha isnt about being dominant, acting like a jerk, or trying to control another person at all. It is about improving yourself, developing your characters which women find appealing, negating those characters which repels a woman, improving your overall traits so that you become more succesful in life, and being comfortable in your skin, and in the process gaining confidence. Fyi, being chivalrous, being respectful and being polite to a woman are all apart of being a confident Alpha. But this does not mean you have to be so polite as to let women walk all over you. Thats the line you cant seem to draw.

Lets take an example of Billy here. If he had acted all wimpy, clingy and obsessive, constantly asking this hottie out after being rejected, do you feel the hottie would say yes eventually or file an HR complaint ? I am certain its the latter. The Alpha male's objective is to make Billy develop the characters to handle that rejection,to deal with it, to develop himself, so that he will develop the traits that will attract a woman,which will bring him success in the future. Nowhere does it teaches him to be a jerk to a woman. Thats just a misconception on your part.

And i too live in a somewhat small community. So i get that women talk. But Alpha Male traits are applicable anywhere, its a character and personality development tool. Far different from Pick Up techniques and Seduction techniques, which will only work in certain environments.

[Muestereate]

I'm talking about their desire for status for themselves not their desire for our status. I have never read in any male literature the recognition of women's desire for status. But if you go into female literature and psychologies you will see it is a suppressed desire, one good girls won't admit to but I'm seeing, secretly crave. It's no secret to them, It's a secret to us. In their literature they are displaced Goddesses and Princesses. The leaders behind the scenes, the Queen behind the king, the reason why the man is motivated.

I live in a smaller town, my appropriate dating pool is in the dozens. The alpha stuff works when the pool is large and women are dependent and dare I say, when the wolf is young and prime. In a small pool women talk, with age they grow independent and knowledgeable of their abilities to survive without a man and sex becomes less of a reason for them to sacrifice their independence as their hormones wain. This is why I am developing chivalrous values in place of alpha values. My book would not sell today and it is hard to not see my names on ladies bathroom stalls as listed as a good time anymore. But Adapt I must.

[Johnny Fever]

Typo correction for the next to last sentence, it should have started "You can't necessarily change life's outcomes"

[Mad Scientist]

An alternate though beta way is to ask if there is something you can help them with or do for them. Or heaven forbid a beta signal like a compliment on their choice of fashion. It won't get you laid though you will make a lot of female friends and female proofing WILL get you laid and introduced.

I have noticed on this website that women really enjoy the feeling the status pheromones give them. I do these things in the hopes that the girls speak well of me in their circles because they will talk to each other and ask other girls what they think of so and so. I've always believed in the power of good references. With women and their inner circles it seems real important but its long game. Piss off an alpha chick and it can cost you dozens of turn downs. Treat them all well, wear socials and the circle grows instead of shrinks.

Musteareate and I may not have the same views when it comes to Alpha/Beta conundrum. But i wholly agree with this. But remember, if you follow this route, you will further reduce your chance of dating the original girl, if ever there still was a small chance like i mentioned. But the plus side is yhat it will help you out in the long run with other women. This is also important in any female interaction you have. No matter what, if she is a hot model or the fat lunch lady, being nice to women will always get you a favourable reputation among the inner circle of female socialization. But by being nice, dont be a crybaby whipping boy for a woman, but a self respecting gentleman who will help out a female when she needs it. I hope you get the difference.

And as to the Status attraction, its no secret that women are attracted by Status, Power, and Social reputation. I also covered this briefly in my Alpha Male posts.

[Mad Scientist]

Moving on to your situation, I have this feeling that the woman you approached will come to you and will ask if that offer still stands.

So in the mean time, when you encounter her again, don't bring it up and wait for her to bring it up. You made your move and she never shut you off fully so the ball is in her court. However, dont hang around waiting for something to happen. Just go in, be you, do your job and leave.

This perfectly sums it up.

[Muestereate]

Could have been worse. I had a string of "how dare you even think such a thing", after all kinds of IOIs, like three in a row. I never did figure that out. At least you kitten didn't scream PERV and run off to Human resources shouting METOO!!!!!.

Both you and Indie describe instances where you were being helpful to women. They liked you because there was something in it for them. That is not PIckup material, That is LTR material and LTR material knows how to spot Alpha pickup/STR comeons. An alternate though beta way is to ask if there is something you can help them with or do for them. Or heaven forbid a beta signal like a compliment on their choice of fashion. It won't get you laid though you will make a lot of female friends and female proofing WILL get you laid and introduced.

I have noticed on this website that women really enjoy the feeling the status pheromones give them. I didn't know that. Recognizing their power and status really sends them for a spin in a good way. I'm still learning to work it sincerely but like I told my nurse the other day to do what she wants, "she's the boss." Well after a career of wiping people's/men's asses she almost melted around my arm. I do these things in the hopes that the girls speak well of me in their circles because they will talk to each other and ask other girls what they think of so and so. I've always believed in the power of good references. With women and their inner circles it seems real important but its long game. Piss off an alpha chick and it can cost you dozens of turn downs. Treat them all well, wear socials and the circle grows instead of shrinks.

[Indi-player]

I will never know either. Her lose, she never got to know how aweosme I would have made her life to be, or a living hell mwahahahhahaha

Moving on to your situation, I have this feeling that the woman you approached will come to you and will ask if that offer still stands.

So in the mean time, when you encounter her again, don't bring it up and wait for her to bring it up. You made your move and she never shut you off fully so the ball is in her court. However, dont hang around waiting for something to happen. Just go in, be you, do your job and leave.

I'm stymied that Indi had some gym woman basically be all flirty and then when he approached she did a complete 180? Was she just looking for some sort of validation or though she'd screw with him as a 'thank you' for setting up the bike. I guess I'll never totally understand women and the way they think!

The quote about Jordan reminds me of a quote I heard awhile ago, being "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take" and I suppose that's a truism for sure. While it's a bit of a sting at least I can say I made the attempt, regardless of the outcome. Just gotta brush myself off and get back on the horse.

If nothing else it was a test bed of sorts for my use of mones. I do wonder, however, what would have happened if she was in the same frame as my encounter earlier in the week. Perhaps if she wasn't so pre-occupied she would have been closer to me and subjected to the cloud, not to say she still wouldn't have said no, but just an observation how things might have played out differently. You can necessarily change life's outcomes and I had no way of foreseeing she'd be in a state when I visited her in her office today. Just another variable to keep in mind down the road I suppose.

[Mad Scientist]

There you go, thats the spirit. You should know that women are insecure beings about their looks and beauty, and needs validation and confirmation from time to time to boost their confidence and ego. This is not a dig at women, its just how they are biologically built, just like how men are biologically built to be driven by male competitiveness, ego, and sex drive, etc.

So, a woman often flirts, tease, leads on a man (whom she is never attracted to, or whom she never intends to have a relationship with, etc) to drive her ego. If a man falls for her tricks and charms, it drives her ego and confidence, in the knowledge that her body and face are hot and beautiful enough to attract the opposite sex, so that ultimately it leads to her confirmation that when the time comes, she can attract a good mate to procreate and further her descent. The fact that womans biological clock is ticking fast is putting pressure on her too, so she needs this to confirms that her biological clock is still in her favour.

This leads to behaviours like the one Indi encountered. But it could be also for a number of other reasons too. Either way, the reasons are not important. The main important thing is you rise above it. Move On. Then more opportunities will come again.

[Johnny Fever]

I'm stymied that Indi had some gym woman basically be all flirty and then when he approached she did a complete 180? Was she just looking for some sort of validation or though she'd screw with him as a 'thank you' for setting up the bike. I guess I'll never totally understand women and the way they think!

The quote about Jordan reminds me of a quote I heard awhile ago, being "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take" and I suppose that's a truism for sure. While it's a bit of a sting at least I can say I made the attempt, regardless of the outcome. Just gotta brush myself off and get back on the horse.

If nothing else it was a test bed of sorts for my use of mones. I do wonder, however, what would have happened if she was in the same frame as my encounter earlier in the week. Perhaps if she wasn't so pre-occupied she would have been closer to me and subjected to the cloud, not to say she still wouldn't have said no, but just an observation how things might have played out differently. You can necessarily change life's outcomes and I had no way of foreseeing she'd be in a state when I visited her in her office today. Just another variable to keep in mind down the road I suppose.

[Mad Scientist]

Good job bringing out the Michael Jordan quote Indi, perfectly applies to this scenario. And your rejection by the gym hottie should be taken as a life lesson by Billy as to why he should not feel bad, but be even more proud that he is taking a bold step to go for something he desires, that what Winners do, go after what they want, and after facing many obstacles and failures, they persists and get what they want.

[Indi-player]

Billy, I went to the gym yesterday and while on the stationary bike, this woman was right beside me, first asking me how to set up the bike and wanted a HIIT exercise. So I set it up for her and went about my business for 15 minutes.

Anyways I moved on to do my other exercises, and I swear everytime we make eye contact, she either winks at me, smiles(she wasn't wearing a mask while doing aerobics) and or waves. After the second time she did that I was like ok I'm gonna go talk to her. The moment I got close to her and said hey, she was like "sorry, not interested". I swear to you, word for word.

Now I could be blaming it on my smell, the way i walked to her, or the time it took me to approach(which wasn't long after the second reaction, just 30 seconds). But I didn't. Honestly my mindset is never ever fall for someone I don't know fully. The only reason I want them in my life is to show them how great of a person I am. No pheromones that day, or it could be my 26 hour application of true pheromones lotion, but i doubt it.

Anyways long story short, the only way to fully succeed is to fail so many times.

Michael Jordan
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

If every man who lusted her approached her, she wouldn't have been single. You did what most men in her life couldn't do. Bravo