I'm Smitten with a Kitten: Advice Wanted

[Mad Scientist]

I know I should be happy that I took the shot, but the outcome is just a reminder of why I hadn't dated in many, many years. I suppose I could always second-guess things with this past interest such as the age gap or whatever, but dwelling on this won't be healthy for my own health and well being.

Seeing all the traditionally handsome guys seemingly always get the girl with apparently so little effort is just a downer. I don't meet tons of people in my own daily life and the pandemic makes it difficult to meet new people, at least in my area. I apparently have the outward appearance that leads to bots and scammers on the popular dating apps even with professionally taken photos. I suppose I can take some solace as a co-worker of mine, who I would just as being a good looking gent, is heading into his second divorce (not that I wish it on him, just life goes on). I've escaped that situation many times over but also missed out on the companionship, be it a LTR or a one-nighter.

I suppose I've never built up the calluses to rejection. I really need to put myself out there and get some battle scars under my belt to see if I can build my experience. Too bad I decided to start so late in the game.

Buddy, this happens to most of us. You would not believe some of the rejections i have had gone through. One example, there was this one girl in school whom i really fancy. I knew her cousin for a long time as our parents are close friends. Her cousin helped me out and let her know that i was interested in her. I got her number through her cousin and asked her out. She declined politely, saying she has no time except for studies right now. But i later heard that she was mocking me as a loser and pathetic wimp, even saying how i even have the nerve to ask her out. Her cousin even scolded her and aplogised to me. I cried for weeks, couldnt even study or do anything besides feel sorry for myself. It was more than a month before i can functionn again normally. Then there was also a time a girl led me on intentionally, only to dump me big time later on. I was devastated.

So dont feel like that, move on, and continue with life. And as you seem like a smart guy, if you seriously want to improve yourself with women, and life in general, do the necessary thing required, and you will succeed. I cant post everything here, but i seriously urge you to read my journal, i have covered all these thing, which i personally benefitted from.

Keep a positive attitude, your time will come.

[Johnny Fever]

I know I should be happy that I took the shot, but the outcome is just a reminder of why I hadn't dated in many, many years. I suppose I could always second-guess things with this past interest such as the age gap or whatever, but dwelling on this won't be healthy for my own health and well being.

Seeing all the traditionally handsome guys seemingly always get the girl with apparently so little effort is just a downer. I don't meet tons of people in my own daily life and the pandemic makes it difficult to meet new people, at least in my area. I apparently have the outward appearance that leads to bots and scammers on the popular dating apps even with professionally taken photos. I suppose I can take some solace as a co-worker of mine, who I would just as being a good looking gent, is heading into his second divorce (not that I wish it on him, just life goes on). I've escaped that situation many times over but also missed out on the companionship, be it a LTR or a one-nighter.

I suppose I've never built up the calluses to rejection. I really need to put myself out there and get some battle scars under my belt to see if I can build my experience. Too bad I decided to start so late in the game.

[Mad Scientist]

OK, I suppose I should beat you all to the punch and admit "... you told me so."

OK, so today was D-Day number 2. My target was stressing big time when I arrived and she sounded a combination of sad, pre-occupied and even annoyed. We were working across the room from me so it was very, very difficult to keep her in my cloud. Even with her standing right next to me there was no clear IoIs with the few moments in close range.

While I thought I was going to be finished with my work within a a short time I was able to stretch it until next to everybody had left the building. It would have been normally been outside of her workday but she was so backed up with writing legal reports / correspondence, re-arranging her upcoming schedule for her work, etc. I even tried to get her to unmask and share a smile but she lamented that she was in no mood to smile.

I was able to initiate some playful kino, holding her hands, but not nearly on the dimension of my prior visit. I finally finished the work that she needed and had her come over to check the system operation. I was standing right next to her and even though I had a good 3 - 5 minutes next to her I didn't see anything like previously.

When I was almost ready to leave I made my move. We share some commonality in music and a semi-major aspect in my work and a major focus of her work, so there's definitely something to talk about. I know she's not a coffee drinker so I said we should go for a drink (while sounding immediate, I didn't intimate what time frame or what type of beverage, as I left it for her to assume). She countered that she was way too busy - certainly believable from what I heard her typing. However, I think the crushing blow was when she said she has my work email so she'd let me know. Unless I'm reading it wrong her not offering me her personal email or cell phone is telltale (I actually have her cell number when she didn't have office phones, but I don't want to be perceived as I'm stalking her.)

As you said previously in this thread I should have asked her out on my first visit. Unless I'm wrong, I'm not holding out much hope as I believe she was just being nice to let me down in a polite, believable way. If she really wanted to let me in wouldn't she have offered her personal cell or email? I don't want to keep "I shoulda" on myself, but this certainly starts the beginning of the weekend on a downer note for me.

I appreciate all the guidance and response I've received in this thread and I hope this journey is a lesson to others who read it in the future.

First off, dont ever feel down or sorry man, you went for it, got a NO, and what happens ? Life goes on. Her loss. So be proud of yourself that you have the balls to go for what you want, and next time you see a girl you really like, do it again, and again, and again. The yes will come, guarenteed. Approaching her was direly needed to know her state of mind. Now that you have known it, you can go on with your life accordingly. That was the aim all along anyways.

And no, i personally am not going to say, "I told you so". I will instead say, BRAVO, keep it up, thats what rejection felt like, so its nothing like the apocalyps many guys thought it to be. Now, you can move on to more women.

Regarding the situation, you should keep in mind that since you had known each other for a long time and never made a move, that in itself is a problem, as she has obviously frienzoned you. That was your first mistake. But she obviously has attraction for you given the attraction signs you described in the previous encounter, and even now with the kino. But like i have said, a woman will be attracted to you, and still says NO if you ask her out because of a myriad of reasons. She might also actually be really busy, as it looks like from that interaction.

As for the work email thing, yeah, if she really wants a date with you, she will say stuffs like, 'I am busy now, but what about Saturday night', 'I am busy right now, but give me a call, here is my number', etc. In the case that she was actually busy, she might also just dont have the time atm, and says the first thing she could, like having your work email for future outings, but this case is slim to be fair.

But whatever the case may be, the next thing you should do now is not to feel down or sad, angry, anything, like i have said before. Life goes on. The other thing you should do is, dont ask her out again, ever, that window is bolted closed. That is, unless she contacts you throught the work email, etc. Next thing, dont make your next interaction awkward or act like you are hurt or something. Be playful, fun, flirty, like always, and even kino her as far as she would let you. And, continue to wear the pheromones combo near her everytime you are near her. Or even wear Xist 2 drops/spray+25mcgs of A1.

If it ever was the case that she was actually too busy (small chance), she will soon show you through gestures and body language again. And also might change her mind about you in the future (small chance) if she sees you are not phased one bit by her rejection and sees you in a positive light with your behaviour and pheromones vibe. But even if thats not the case (big chance), you have moved on, and more women will be along soon. That is a certainty.

[Johnny Fever]

OK, I suppose I should beat you all to the punch and admit "... you told me so."

OK, so today was D-Day number 2. My target was stressing big time when I arrived and she sounded a combination of sad, pre-occupied and even annoyed. We were working across the room from me so it was very, very difficult to keep her in my cloud. Even with her standing right next to me there was no clear IoIs with the few moments in close range.

While I thought I was going to be finished with my work within a a short time I was able to stretch it until next to everybody had left the building. It would have been normally been outside of her workday but she was so backed up with writing legal reports / correspondence, re-arranging her upcoming schedule for her work, etc. I even tried to get her to unmask and share a smile but she lamented that she was in no mood to smile.

I was able to initiate some playful kino, holding her hands, but not nearly on the dimension of my prior visit. I finally finished the work that she needed and had her come over to check the system operation. I was standing right next to her and even though I had a good 3 - 5 minutes next to her I didn't see anything like previously.

When I was almost ready to leave I made my move. We share some commonality in music and a semi-major aspect in my work and a major focus of her work, so there's definitely something to talk about. I know she's not a coffee drinker so I said we should go for a drink (while sounding immediate, I didn't intimate what time frame or what type of beverage, as I left it for her to assume). She countered that she was way too busy - certainly believable from what I heard her typing. However, I think the crushing blow was when she said she has my work email so she'd let me know. Unless I'm reading it wrong her not offering me her personal email or cell phone is telltale (I actually have her cell number when she didn't have office phones, but I don't want to be perceived as I'm stalking her.)

As you said previously in this thread I should have asked her out on my first visit. Unless I'm wrong, I'm not holding out much hope as I believe she was just being nice to let me down in a polite, believable way. If she really wanted to let me in wouldn't she have offered her personal cell or email? I don't want to keep "I shoulda" on myself, but this certainly starts the beginning of the weekend on a downer note for me.

I appreciate all the guidance and response I've received in this thread and I hope this journey is a lesson to others who read it in the future.

[Mad Scientist]

The big day is here man. Relax, be confident, maintain the fun and flirty interaction.

And ask her out !!!

Hoping to hear reports soon, good luck.

[Muestereate]

I agree with the , 'your move' ideas. I don't put as much on the alpha beta ideas as Mad. I'm more into ideas of chivalry which can sound beta to others but alpha to women, but thats me. I think they play to the romance fantasies and I already come off as Alpha and work on turning it down instead of up. I say show the real you, if that is to be of service to her in the future, be you no matter what it is labeled that way its easy to stay true to yourself and her if there is a future.

[Muestereate]

same cologne brings back same memories. I'm tempted to say keep everything the same to reinforce first visit feelings as not a fluke. pheros usually take a few minutes but cologne is instant

[Mad Scientist]

Look man, one advice my dad gave me as a teenager before I started dating was this " To get a women's approval is to not try to get it anyways" you're doing most of the thinking for her and soo outcome dependent.

This friday, dont try, dont act, just do it.

dont change your signature. What worked last time will work again so wear those same pheromones and go in for the kill.

Exactly, this, remember this.

[Mad Scientist]

You're right, I am overthinking. I had been out of the dating scene for a significant time due to several bad experiences (ended up as someone's revenge lay while she was still married). Been a long stretch since dating / LTR and, with that, out of practice with the whole magilla.



Pointing out the positives is something I suppose I needed enforced, rather than just stewing about what I perceived as negatives. As I said, been a long time from dating anyone (not counting 1st dates on apps where the photo isn't even a real representation of what finally showed up). That put me off for an even longer time.



Personally, I don't think it's oneitis, but more of a fear of rejection. Will admit I'm not some Chad buff looking dude, not that I ever was. I suppose this adds to looking at the negative too much. I need to focus on her positive interaction with me.



Best. Advice. Given. Looks like Friday is the do it or die day. Let's see where things land.

... and thank you for the sage advice.

I understand your rusty game and out of practice, not to worry man, you will get them back in no time if you sincerely desire to improve yourself. Taking out positives instead of mulling over a negatives over and over is a good start. Think of that revenge fuck not as a heartbreaker, but the experience you get to fuck a married woman one in your life, lol.

And dont worry for a minute about your looks, its all about your charisma, confidence and charms when it comes to a woman. Besides, Nude Alpha has serious beautifying properties, so you can be damn sure that you will look more handsome in her eyes.

Like Indi said above, dont try, dont act, just do it. This friday is the day, promise yourself that.

Also.like Indi said, dont suddenly change your signature when it works, as that nay throw her off guard and confuse her. Stick to the same combos.

Good luck.

[Indi-player]

Look man, one advice my dad gave me as a teenager before I started dating was this " To get a women's approval is to not try to get it anyways" you're doing most of the thinking for her and soo outcome dependent.

This friday, dont try, dont act, just do it.

dont change your signature. What worked last time will work again so wear those same pheromones and go in for the kill.

[Johnny Fever]

Man, you are thinking too much, and you know what that leads to ? Fear of rejection, oneitis, etc. Not good.

She has shown you she is attracted with all those signs, playing with her hair, kino, increased flirty and fun conversations. So just grow some balls and make a move, stop thinking too much into every little detail and possible outcomes and over analyse each and every minute of that interaction.

You're right, I am overthinking. I had been out of the dating scene for a significant time due to several bad experiences (ended up as someone's revenge lay while she was still married). Been a long stretch since dating / LTR and, with that, out of practice with the whole magilla.

The heck with that attempted playful touch she stooped mid air. She is a woman, and you havent even asked her out yet, so why would she initiate kino repeatedly at you in your normal interactions !!! That will make her look like a horny slut, what normal respectable girl would do that ? Think about it !. But instead she does it by playing with her hair subconciously, getting starry eyed, reciprocating and not refusing your kino, reciprocating your conversation and being fun and flirty near you. So, it might just be she decided to playfully slap you, but suddenly retract as she realise it is too forward, who knows !!! The most important thing is you know she puts out attraction signs. The next step is asking her out. Its the mans job now. If you dont, she will dismiss you, and even loathe you for not picking up on her cues. And with the increased effect of the pheromones, she will go into withdrawal to avoid getting hurt.

Pointing out the positives is something I suppose I needed enforced, rather than just stewing about what I perceived as negatives. As I said, been a long time from dating anyone (not counting 1st dates on apps where the photo isn't even a real representation of what finally showed up). That put me off for an even longer time.

And i sincerely urge you to ask her out in the next interaction, or there is no point in this. And the time of interaction is perfect to ask her out for a drink etc, and this will lead to further reason to finally ask her out on a real date. Remember to keep it flirty and fun like before, thats your job too. Also, stop getting too smitten already, stop this beta thinking of fearing for awkwardness too much, what if, what will happen etc bla bla bla nonsense, you are starting to develop oneitis already. Just treat her like any other girl, that will take your confidence back.

Personally, I don't think it's oneitis, but more of a fear of rejection. Will admit I'm not some Chad buff looking dude, not that I ever was. I suppose this adds to looking at the negative too much. I need to focus on her positive interaction with me.

The thing with asking a girl out is, that many times you will get rejected, and many times you will succeed. So,as a guy, all you can really do is read her attraction signs and go from there. Women are fickle creatures, and even with strong attractions signals, they often reject a mans advances because they are just not in the mood, have other problems, just love to tease a man to get a confidence boost, scared to get too attached too soon, etc, and also accepts a mans advances many times without much attraction signals for a myriad of reasons.

So keep this in mind, just ask her out, and if she accepts, great. If not, move on. It is not the end of the world, there are lots of other women. Its no big deal.

Best. Advice. Given. Looks like Friday is the do it or die day. Let's see where things land.

... and thank you for the sage advice.

[Mad Scientist]

Man, you are thinking too much, and you know what that leads to ? Fear of rejection, oneitis, etc. Not good.

She has shown you she is attracted with all those signs, playing with her hair, kino, increased flirty and fun conversations. So just grow some balls and make a move, stop thinking too much into every little detail and possible outcomes and over analyse each and every minute of that interaction.

The heck with that attempted playful touch she stooped mid air. She is a woman, and you havent even asked her out yet, so why would she initiate kino repeatedly at you in your normal interactions !!! That will make her look like a horny slut, what normal respectable girl would do that ? Think about it !. But instead she does it by playing with her hair subconciously, getting starry eyed, reciprocating and not refusing your kino, reciprocating your conversation and being fun and flirty near you. So, it might just be she decided to playfully slap you, but suddenly retract as she realise it is too forward, who knows !!! The most important thing is you know she puts out attraction signs. The next step is asking her out. Its the mans job now. If you dont, she will dismiss you, and even loathe you for not picking up on her cues. And with the increased effect of the pheromones, she will go into withdrawal to avoid getting hurt.

And i sincerely urge you to ask her out in the next interaction, or there is no point in this. And the time of interaction is perfect to ask her out for a drink etc, and this will lead to further reason to finally ask her out on a real date. Remember to keep it flirty and fun like before, thats your job too. Also, stop getting too smitten already, stop this beta thinking of fearing for awkwardness too much, what if, what will happen etc bla bla bla nonsense, you are starting to develop oneitis already. Just treat her like any other girl, that will take your confidence back.

The thing with asking a girl out is, that many times you will get rejected, and many times you will succeed. So,as a guy, all you can really do is read her attraction signs and go from there. Women are fickle creatures, and even with strong attractions signals, they often reject a mans advances because they are just not in the mood, have other problems, just love to tease a man to get a confidence boost, scared to get too attached too soon, etc, and also accepts a mans advances many times without much attraction signals for a myriad of reasons.

So keep this in mind, just ask her out, and if she accepts, great. If not, move on. It is not the end of the world, there are lots of other women. Its no big deal.

[Johnny Fever]

I was right on the edge of asking her out but when at the point near the end of my visit with her she was in movement to give me a playful touch on my arm and stopped about two-thirds through her arc - I don't know what that may signal. This rattled me as I was uncertain why she wouldn't follow through. Did the age gap rear its head in her mind? Was there some other thought about if she followed through with the touch she'd be sending a signal she didn't want to? This is something I'm somewhat dealing with in my head. Most of the kino was initiated by me with not a great deal from her, which is why the sudden stop had me second guessing.

Memory will start to fade after 4th day. Even if you don't have a longer interaction, if you can find a way to remind her that the interaction was fun or whatever you should. Be careful, when people recall memories, they are fragile. You don't want to disrupt any good fantasies she might have going on in her head so let her unravel it herself, resist minor corrections. NA can hit hard, You have to be ready now even if you'd like to take the long road, she may not. Listen very carefully and if you aren't sure what she is hinting at, ask.

Next interaction is Friday afternoon (D Day +3) about an hour before we both clock out. I really only have a 15 - 30 minutes of work, max, but I think I can stretch it out to the hour when we both leave. I was thinking that might be an opening to grab a drink or something. If the interaction was going to be on the short side I didn't know if using the initial meeting doses would be more beneficial than the reduction, especially if I end up having substantially less time in her presence (and not know if I'll manage to keep her close enough to my cloud).

As Muestereate mentioned, I was delighted that not only did she have me stay and work with her for the extra two hours but also that I'm be able to return later in the week. If it wasn't for that it would be likely I wouldn't see her for weeks / months until another interaction with her unless she need tech help (just can't do a unexpected "drop-in" as she out of office work, too). This extra visit was unexpectedly gifted to me and the late Friday appointment with her is a blessing, especially if it segues into an after work meet-up.

To those offering me advice I ask to please re-read what I wrote as my wrap-up yesterday (along with my ramblings today). Should I use the same cologne or switch to Bleu? Strong dose for limited time with her or the recommended reduced dose? I neither want to screw this up where I blow my chance, which is why I'm glad to be seeing her at week's end, but also don't want to make it awkward for her to work with me in the future.

This outing was the biggest confidence boost I had in awhile, as I couldn't believe the interaction. Should I have asked her out? Probably, but the mid-stop arm touch just red flagged me. Besides being stunning she has a vibrant personality which is why I'm smitten with her. I'm trying not to get oneitis but would love the opportunity, if it presents itself, to enjoy the company of this lovely lass down the road.

[Mad Scientist]

Exactly, this. Dont be afraid to go for it.

[Mad Scientist]

I would have gone for it and approached her instantly that day if it was me, given those attraction signs. But he decided to go the long route. So, i really do hope that he ask her out in the next meet up.

When a woman withdraws, shit gets messy. She needs to be given time to figure out her feelings, it may take months. I tend to want to avoid those situations, and especially dont have time to wait for a woman to decide if she will reciprocate my advances or not.

[Muestereate]

Memory will start to fade after 4th day. Even if you don't have a longer interaction, if you can find a way to remind her that the interaction was fun or whatever you should. Be careful, when people recall memories, they are fragile. You don't want to disrupt any good fantasies she might have going on in her head so let her unravel it herself, resist minor corrections. NA can hit hard, You have to be ready now even if you'd like to take the long road, she may not. Listen very carefully and if you aren't sure what she is hinting at, ask.

Last time I played NA hard I screwed up, waited a whole week, which was fine but then I waited 2 and I shouldn't have, I should have reached out and tried for a relationship. Lot of other stuff went through her head in that amount of time and she was looking for excuses not to get involved instead of reasons to get involved. Nice Girl, Next time I saw her she screamed at me like an idiot in ways similar as MAD described. My fault not hers. I hit her with a relationship product but didn't want everything that went with that.

[Indi-player]

all 3 women I've dated from previous jobs, I had only one game plan. I worked with them everyday so I wanted to show some interest in communicating outside work.

Get into a conversation and the moment they talk about themselves, show interest, even if it's very briefly.

then say this "i find you very interesting, are you as interesting outside of work as you are here?" SMILE or wink(mask)

Her yes is an invitation for you to ask her out , maybe mention you know of a place that has this amazing tea? Drinks?

Her no can be countered with "too bad, maybe the right person is missing to make you shine" wink

Her maybe can be countered with "I would really like to find out" SMILE. Or wink(mask)

She's comfortable with you, so she'll never take offence in you asking for a meet up outside of work.

My take but I'm 34 years old and the youngest I've been with was 9 years my junior.

[Mad Scientist]

Hello, glad to see your reports. I will jot down a few things i might suggest for you in the future, hope it will lead to more positive outcomes.

1. NA high dose is perfect for that 1st initial interaction if you want to make a sudden positive impact in her mind. If you go with a low dose in your 1st interaction, you might need longer time to see it visibly affect her. But thats what NA does best too. So in your next encounter till the encounter where you ask her out or you go on a date, lower the NA dose as suggested in reply 21. Since you are already making a positive impact, the low dose constant exposure will build up, and affect her more and more. But if you wait too long to ask her out, she might dismiss you as non interested, so dont ever make that mistake. Besides with the NA building up and you not approaching, she might be scared she is suddenly so attracted to you, it will result in withdrawal from her to avoid being hurt, you being ignored, her getting snappy or angry at you, her getting jealous if you talk with other women, etc. Id say, considering all things, ask her out the next 1 or 2 interactions for sure. You went the long route, but dont stay there for months, return after a couple of days, if you know what i mean.

2. As regards the mask, if it aint tightly and snugly fitted and contracted to her face like a N95 mask, it is bound to penetrate the mask, i have proven this in my journal. Besides, cloth are not as filtering as the materials on even a normal surgical masks.

3. The hair playing is a definite sign of huge attraction, and the playful kino are perfect, along with the increased conversation about different topics and the starry eyes. Believe me, if she does not like you, she will cower her body to turn away from you in a defensive manner and posture, so as to avoid further accidental touch. If a guy can tell it, you can bet a woman will definitely notice those things. Also, she will keep her conversation short, on point and without humour, so as to reduce conversation as short as possible.

About asking her out, just casually and with a little flirty tone ask her, "Hey, this is fun, lets grab a drink sometime" something like that. There are tons of drinks besides coffee my man.

My advice, ASK HER OUT IN THE NEXT 1 OR 2 INTERACTIONS.

[Johnny Fever]

The big day is here, dont get nervous, treat it like any other interactions. And go for it if you see any slight openings. The pheromones will do the rest. Hope to hear your progress soon.

OK, the day came and went. I'll give the play by play and hopefully all you folks can provide constructive feedback.

Using Mad's dose suggestions from reply 25 above I applied them about 45 minutes before my arrival. (also A1 was four drops from a glass dropper) I moved the neck app points to near / on my jugular to hopefully help diffusion. The only two high-end colognes I have are Chanel Bleu Parfum and Aqua Di Gio Profundo and opted for Aqua.

My two hour visit became four hours as she found a few things she wanted my assistance on and when I said I could always come back she opted to just let me do everything while I was there. She had a cloth mask so I hoped that helped as oppose to an N95/KN95 mask. Noticed lots, and I mean LOTS of hair twirling. This is the first time I noted real strong IoIs in a target. I initiated some playful touch, as when she typed in her password I playfully swatted her hand on the keys a couple of times to throw her off. She was as bubbly as in our previous interactions. She may have returned volley once, maybe twice.

Convo strayed from work-related to health to food. Discovered an allergy she had as I planned on gifting her some holiday candy. Had a few snacks in my travel case and shared with her. At one point closer near the end of my visit with her she was in movement to give me a playful touch on my arm and stopped about two-thirds through her arc - I don't know what that may signal. While I noticed her lovey eyes and finally noted their color I didn't get a clear moment to note if they were dilated or not. She had a meeting she was heading off to but things ended on a positive note as far as I can tell.

I think considering the chain of events I'm moving on the long track. I have another appointment with her near week's end close to the end of day to do some additional work. Know she doesn't imbibe in coffee but was trying to figure out how to tactfully suggest going for a drink if I get better indicators. Remember, work environment so don't want to cross the line but willing to take a chance if I see some sort of positive signal(s).

Also curious do I use the same dosing I did or should I cut back to what Mad offered in reply 21 for the follow-up visit?

Probably skipping details for the sake of brevity but glad for any offered feedback and criticism.

[Indi-player]

Didnt see the 6ml bottle Muestereate is right