I discussed this in another thread and thought it was worthy of it's own discussion. Also we don't hafta hijack someone else's topic.
The research out there isn't entirely clear and some of it is contradictory. One treatise I found IMPLIES that there is a different conversion process based on gender. That is, that men and women are populated with different types of coryneform bacteria and, therefore, convert pheromones differently.
I found one body of research that discusses pheromone excretion. It stated that Androstadienone is the only one via axillary glands in the arm pits and that others are a result of conversion, while another purports that Androstadienone is converted from Androstadienol. Another body of research implies that Androstadieone is exuded by men and Andtrosadienol by women. It further implies that Androstenols are converted only by women. This contradicts other research that shows that Androstadienone is converted into Adrostenone and subsequently into the Adrostenols. To further complicate matters, it appears that all pheromones begin as Pregnenolone which is converted into Androstadienol, into Androstadienone, into Androstenone, into Alpha or Beta Androsenol.
I also found a study that states that Androsterone, a metabolite of Testosterone, is excreted via axillary and sebaceous glands. Axillary glands are located in the arm pits and sebaceous glands are associated with hair follicles and, as such, are located in any hairy parts of the body, e.g., scalp, arm pits, groin and chest. I suspect that sebaceous glands may also be known as apocrine glands as they are also located in hairy areas and known to excrete pheromones. There is no mention of Androsterone in the conversion chain and it seems to imply that it is independent thereof. However, I think that this must be an oversight or merely hasn't been studied. I find it hard to believe that Androsterone exists in and of itself.
I suspect that the gender differences have more to do with the genders focused on in the various research studies and less about the actual nature of conversion itself.
In many discussions I had over a decade ago with Michael Harris, founder of Androtics, he stated that the nature of conversion is quite complex. Namely, that one pheromone converts into another and then into another and then anothers still, on down the line. He further believes that not only does cross conversion happen, but that it's possible that pheromones can eventually revert back to their original form.
I can say that, back in the days when I was using strictly oils, things didn't get interesting until they had a chance to "cook" for an hour or two. I believe the situation is different in the case of alcohol bases, i.e., sprays. Alcohol has antiseptic properties and likely kills off the indigenous bacteria on the skin, thereby sterilizing the area of application. As a result you're delaying the conversion process until such time as the skin has a chance to repopulate with coryneform bacteria.
One thing that has never been discussed is the time frame for purported conversions. Based on my experience, as I previously mentioned, it takes several hours after application. Another thing that is never mentioned is the extent of such conversion. Is it 1%, 10%, 35%? That's anyone's guess.
As you can see, while it answers some questions, it raises even more. We may never have answers to such questions.
So my question to the community is have you noticed evidence of suspected conversions? I can't help but think of Ragnar Lothbrook and his pit technique and whether the possibility of Androstenone converting to the Androstenol may have something to do with his ability to use rather high doses successfully at work.
The research out there isn't entirely clear and some of it is contradictory. One treatise I found IMPLIES that there is a different conversion process based on gender. That is, that men and women are populated with different types of coryneform bacteria and, therefore, convert pheromones differently.
I found one body of research that discusses pheromone excretion. It stated that Androstadienone is the only one via axillary glands in the arm pits and that others are a result of conversion, while another purports that Androstadienone is converted from Androstadienol. Another body of research implies that Androstadieone is exuded by men and Andtrosadienol by women. It further implies that Androstenols are converted only by women. This contradicts other research that shows that Androstadienone is converted into Adrostenone and subsequently into the Adrostenols. To further complicate matters, it appears that all pheromones begin as Pregnenolone which is converted into Androstadienol, into Androstadienone, into Androstenone, into Alpha or Beta Androsenol.
I also found a study that states that Androsterone, a metabolite of Testosterone, is excreted via axillary and sebaceous glands. Axillary glands are located in the arm pits and sebaceous glands are associated with hair follicles and, as such, are located in any hairy parts of the body, e.g., scalp, arm pits, groin and chest. I suspect that sebaceous glands may also be known as apocrine glands as they are also located in hairy areas and known to excrete pheromones. There is no mention of Androsterone in the conversion chain and it seems to imply that it is independent thereof. However, I think that this must be an oversight or merely hasn't been studied. I find it hard to believe that Androsterone exists in and of itself.
I suspect that the gender differences have more to do with the genders focused on in the various research studies and less about the actual nature of conversion itself.
In many discussions I had over a decade ago with Michael Harris, founder of Androtics, he stated that the nature of conversion is quite complex. Namely, that one pheromone converts into another and then into another and then anothers still, on down the line. He further believes that not only does cross conversion happen, but that it's possible that pheromones can eventually revert back to their original form.
I can say that, back in the days when I was using strictly oils, things didn't get interesting until they had a chance to "cook" for an hour or two. I believe the situation is different in the case of alcohol bases, i.e., sprays. Alcohol has antiseptic properties and likely kills off the indigenous bacteria on the skin, thereby sterilizing the area of application. As a result you're delaying the conversion process until such time as the skin has a chance to repopulate with coryneform bacteria.
One thing that has never been discussed is the time frame for purported conversions. Based on my experience, as I previously mentioned, it takes several hours after application. Another thing that is never mentioned is the extent of such conversion. Is it 1%, 10%, 35%? That's anyone's guess.
As you can see, while it answers some questions, it raises even more. We may never have answers to such questions.
So my question to the community is have you noticed evidence of suspected conversions? I can't help but think of Ragnar Lothbrook and his pit technique and whether the possibility of Androstenone converting to the Androstenol may have something to do with his ability to use rather high doses successfully at work.
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