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When is a Drop Not a Drop?

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  • When is a Drop Not a Drop?

    Somewhat inspired by a recent post I just had to ask this one to see how everyone weighs in.

    I like to keep some of my mixes available for 'on the go' use for either during or outside work, especially since I don't want to accidentally ruin an entire bottle should I leave them in a rather warm car. While I've have good luck with sprays (and have purchased some extras in the past) I've always had a devil of a time trying to get uniform results using bottles having eurodroppers. Besides, unless you have a mirror around it's difficult to see how many drops you're getting if you're attempting to place them on your neck, if not just difficult in general.

    With some casual research I purchased a couple of dozen tinted 10 ml bottles with glass dropper tops off of Amazon. They appear to be quite similar to the ones supplied with oils by PXS, which allowed me to convert some older bottles to glass dropper tops. Any bottle that hadn't had a glass dropper top I converted along with changing my go-kit to keep some of my favorite oils around now with the arrival of warmer weather.

    I came across this subject strictly by accident. I had some taller LAL bottles where the dropper for the 10ml bottle was too small. I had some generic eye droppers of a longer length I previously purchased from Walmart and it was a simple task to swap them into the squeeze bulb that fits the bottle top. Problem solved, right? Well, here's the rub (which I may have written about previously).

    I noticed that the drooper end opening of the short glass droppers, the longer glass droppers, the eurodropper and a few angled glass droppers all have different orifice sizes. This means (at least to me) that a single dispensed drop would be a certain amount of fluid and mones. The orifice size difference would mean drops by each of them would differ between then correct? My point is that many members here and elsewhere have shared their own magic formulas with doses usually stated in drops. The question is, if a drop is smaller or larger as in not a standard measure how should somebody compensate when trying to duplicate another members success? Just go by total drops? Use more drops when the dropper orifice is smaller and, if so, how do you figure how much more to compensate?

    I've pondered this for quite some time and this recent exercise in bottles and droppers got me to revisit this so I'm hoping the collective braintrust might have some interesting answers.
    My Journal: Fever's Follies

    My stash: Moved to the first post of my journal as it no longer fits in my forum signature.

  • #2
    As a phero enthusiast of many years, lol, I too have come across this dilemma.

    Here is my own learned experience. This is my opinion and others may not agree.

    I have LAL, XS, LPMP, Pheromone Treasure...let's just say, many companies and many droppers, lol, including Amazon purchases for similar reasons like your own.

    I have, I think, good news for you

    Don't over think it.

    Of all the sizes, all the potencies, self mixes, singles - you name it! - what you have will get you close enough to what you want without worrying about 0.001%mcg differences.

    That's a complete oversimplification of course, but I have found my combos perform as I expect in spite of the variances.

    1 or 2 drops off APi on the back of my hand and spread across my neck (instead of trying to drop directly to my neck) has performed just as well as if I had applied the whole drop to my neck, even though I know I've lost some of the oil to the back of my hand (which inevitably gets washed off at some point).

    I would love to believe that each spray and drop I have ever sprayed and dropped were exact, but truth be told, each from the same bottle has some variance you cannot account for. But that's ok, they are guidelines.

    If it's something ridiculously outstanding, (i.e. the eye drops bottle is producing drops noticably twice the size of the original bottle consistently), then you may want to compensate the rest of your combo. Often, though, it is not the concern you may first be thinking it is.

    I'm interested in what others have to share on this topic
    You're never too old to learn NuTrix ^_~

    Comment


    • #3
      NuTrix Thanks for your prospective regarding this. I know with what limited scientific tools I had available I attempted to weigh and measure the different drops dispensed from the variety of droppers I had available. Some of my research was inconclusive due mainly to not being able to precisely measure the quantity of each dropper's corresponding drop.

      I did learn a few interesting tidbits about the eurodropper, which after understanding its operation I've actually be able to successfully use it. Sometimes, depending on how heavy (i.e. viscous) the particular mixture is the eurodropper either dispenses a single drop between 1 - 3 seconds once the bottle is inverted or, for thinner mixes, is dispensed way too fast in my opinion.

      Steve Carow of Caron Dispensing has an excellent blog post about Droppers for Essential Oils which provides quite a bit of detail for the typical eurdropper insert. While the info was helpful in demonstration flow rate it didn't help me to discern the difference in dispensed volume with different dropper orifice sizes, regardless of glass dropper or eurodropper.

      I don't know if it's a flawed assumption or not but I figured I'd err on the side of caution and perhaps go with a slightly heavier dose (i.e., an extra drop) from those who recommended certain mixes. Of course one's own body chemistry may play an additional variable in this or not, but I figure I could always lower the dose after observing in-field testing. My thinking is better to be well equipped as opposed to missing an opportunity - thoughts?

      Please forgive me for "geeking out" on this, as I just found this interesting, especially when I've been focusing in trying to hone in on the successes others have had.
      My Journal: Fever's Follies

      My stash: Moved to the first post of my journal as it no longer fits in my forum signature.

      Comment


      • #4
        From one geek to another, I don't think you're seeking out

        I have a small digital weigh scale thanks to my exploration as well

        Yes viscosity is potentially a pain. Voodoo from LAL pours out like water while most others I have are DPG. Even when I order single molecules I ask for oil over alcohol based for the sake of control.

        My thoughts on compensation in dosing? Yes, I agree with you. i.e. I was trying to figure out my dose for APi and knew I would lose some (because I apply to the back of my hand and then to my neck) so I went with 2 full drops and then after testing backed it off from there.

        Like you mentioned, it is my personal belief that our own pheromones and those of our targets DO create variability.
        Also the level of emotional restraint one is raised with - or without - can affect visible reactions in targets, so even if they aren't displaying a reaction, they may (likely) still be feeling the affects.
        And, with women, our hormones fluctuate throughout the month. I'm sure our pheromone production changes more frequently.
        I also consider the amount of pheromone molecules in a product work quite effectively to most often outweigh personal production.

        Teehee, it IS a fun rabbit hole to pursue...


        You're never too old to learn NuTrix ^_~

        Comment


        • NuTrix
          NuTrix commented
          Editing a comment
          PS
          Good article

      • #5
        Originally posted by NuTrix View Post
        I have a small digital weigh scale thanks to my exploration as well
        I have friends who are middle schools science teachers. I suppose I could see if they have anything accurate enough to weigh. I know the graduated beakers they had weren't small enough to gain anything meaningful from them.

        Originally posted by NuTrix View Post
        Yes viscosity is potentially a pain. Voodoo from LAL pours out like water while most others I have are DPG. Even when I order single molecules I ask for oil over alcohol based for the sake of control.
        I was thinking about this as well, but wondered about the silage differences between a straight alcohol base and DPG.


        Originally posted by NuTrix View Post
        My thoughts on compensation in dosing? Yes, I agree with you. i.e. I was trying to figure out my dose for APi and knew I would lose some (because I apply to the back of my hand and then to my neck) so I went with 2 full drops and then after testing backed it off from there.
        My thoughts are I had dispensed in a similar fashion but instead of the back of the hand I'd place it as far up my lower arm as I could while still allowing me to dab on the side of my neck, i.e., back of right lower arm to dab on left side of neck. I figured then, besides not being easily washed off, would still count as the accumulated dose.

        Originally posted by NuTrix View Post
        Like you mentioned, it is my personal belief that our own pheromones and those of our targets DO create variability.
        Also the level of emotional restraint one is raised with - or without - can affect visible reactions in targets, so even if they aren't displaying a reaction, they may (likely) still be feeling the affects.
        And, with women, our hormones fluctuate throughout the month. I'm sure our pheromone production changes more frequently.
        I also consider the amount of pheromone molecules in a product work quite effectively to most often outweigh personal production.
        There's plenty of variables between a person's own chemistry and anything else that may change their body from emotions to, in the case of women, monthly biological changes. All the variables makes some experimentation inconclusive, at least to me, since there's no way to obtain a 100% all-the-time test scenario. Sort of makes things both interesting and frustrating.

        Originally posted by NuTrix View Post
        Teehee, it IS a fun rabbit hole to pursue...
        Been down that hole many, many times. A somewhat related rabbit hole is "when is a spray not a spray" when you consider not only different dispensers but if you hold the sprayer further away you begin to lose product being directly applied to the skin, so that would have an affect on effectiveness.
        My Journal: Fever's Follies

        My stash: Moved to the first post of my journal as it no longer fits in my forum signature.

        Comment


        • #6
          Here's the little scale I picked up off Amazon. Inexpensive and perfect for weighing out such small quantities



          I was dabbling in perfume and pheromone molecules, alcohol/DPG, home mixes from oils into sprays, etc...all that good stuff, lol.
          I went through many 5 & 10ml spray, drop and roller bottles - and countless pipettes All to settle my own personal curiosities. It's been a fun quest
          You're never too old to learn NuTrix ^_~

          Comment


          • #7
            Using a bulb dropper would be the best way to remove the guesswork for this
            Pheromone XS
            Oil: evolve, xist
            Spray: Xist, Evolve, cohesion, sob

            Comment

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