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Diffusion and why its so damn important! (My Research Journal)

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  • Diffusion and why its so damn important! (My Research Journal)

    A pheromone blend is only as good as its diffusivity. Diffusion is the lifting of the odor molecules (pheromones) off the application point (skin) into the surrounding atmosphere exposing the odor to others in the area. The more diffusive a pheromone blend is, the larger an area will be exposed with potentially a wider swath of people. It is therefore the assumption of most pheromone vendors that higher rates of diffusion will be attributed to more commercial viability of their mixes. More people will see results, because more people will be affected.

    This might seem like a logical conclusion, but like most things “pheromone” logic does not always dictate the truth. Pheromones are the gateway to human emotions and emotions rarely follow a course of logic. So why exactly would a higher rate of diffusion not serve the best interest of a pheromone blend?

    To best answer this lets consider potential outcomes while attending an event in large space like a dance club with lots of wonderful happy people. The temperature is a perfect 72 degrees and other than body movement the air is perfectly still. The pheromone blend we are testing is highly diffusive and permeates the room quickly and completely. The time frame of our test is 6 hours, which is approximately the length of time of an average weekend night out.

    In this test scenario we are faced with several “potential” shortcomings that you should consider when selecting the right blend:

    The first consideration is because the diffusivity is with such force that the blend is already at its half-life within a couple hours. An unregulated rate of diffusion releases the pheromone molecules into the atmosphere, thus depleting a blend at a faster level. A blend that does not compensate with diffusion management will lose its effectiveness just about when you want it to be most effective.

    Routinely, venue changes occur after 2 hours from pre-drinking at a local bar, before culminating the rest of the evening at a club or party. For our test we will stay at the same venue for the entire period. This does not account for any walking, sweating, removal of clothing such as jackets, scarves or other articles that might rub on the initial application point. It also does not account for wiping the application point or having another body rubbing this area if dancing or something else. There are many factors you should be aware of that can and do change the structure of effectiveness of a blend throughout the night.

    The second consideration is based on the structure of the pheromone ingredients. Many blends are heavy on sexual molecules like Androstenone while sparse on tempering social molecules like Alpha-Androstenol. Sexual molecules that have more of an aggressive emotional response are also the “stickiest” or heaviest. This means they stick around or last the lengthiest periods of time while tempering social molecules are more volatile and therefore dissipate the fastest. With fast diffusing pheromone blends the tempering social molecules burn off the quickest which leaves only aggressive sexual molecules behind.

    All of us have been exposed to advertisements that guarantee to get you laid or best yet, the most pheromone content allowable by law, whatever the heck that means. I’m sure you are well informed to recognize these as ridiculous claims. These are merely blends with elevated concentrations of unbalanced Androstenone, but isn’t that precisely what a blend is left as when everything else burns off?

    The third consideration is maybe the most important. When diffusion occurs in such a way that an entire room is exposed to the odor of pheromones there is no way to trace the emotional response to any one person as would occur with silage or signature. A good pheromone blend will enable the wearer to interact with a group of people sparking an emotional response from that group.

    The pheromones you wear are designed to elicit a specific emotional response. An alpha-leader blend like Ascend projects the wearer as someone who is confident and in control of their environment. This becomes your signature that pulls the emotions away as you leave the area. Your silage is the signatures cloud that follows you as you work your way through the room. As you get further away from a group the emotional response you created leaves with you. This enables that emotional response to be associated with you.

    An unregulated diffusive blend, on the other hand, generates a cloud that permeates the entire area. This cloud is no longer able to be associated with any one person and is the catalyst for pheromone signature theft. Using our Ascend example of alpha-leader the cloud lingers throughout the venue and is associated back to the perceived alpha-leader of the crowd rather than back to the direct pheromone connection.

    We at the XS labs (which is a two room home office I converted into a lab) have been researching some innovative diffusion technologies. What we discovered is a blend, while needing diffusion, also needs to have a level of control. The signature that is created is the direct link through silage back to the wearer. Without it you just have this big cloud that anyone can steal. This happens more times than any of us probably want to admit.

    This is my journal of the research we are conducting here at XS labs to create the perfect level of diffusion for our blends. A balance of diffusion that creates traceable silage while maintaining a steady and even burn of both tempering and sexual molecules. A precise molecular blend that turn heads when you walk into any room and keeps them emotionally invested throughout the interaction from start to finish.

    This is a journey of discovery and all are welcome to comment and contribute. I’ll be investigating fragrance aldehydes and the likes from the perfume world known for their diffusive tenacity such as Hedione (Methyl Dihydrojasmonate). I’ll do my honest best to indicate the molecule, its scent or lack-there-of, how it interacts in DPG or SD40B, whether there are counter-indications and most importantly how it works for diffusion.

    I’ve already been investigating for quite some time so I have a small data-base of information to share with you. Some of these substances will never be made available via a diffusion package by XS as they are banned for commercial use by the International Fragrance Association IFRA. However I will provide sources where as an individual enthusiast and hobbyist you can obtain them for personal experimentation.

    Diffusion technology is a very secretive and competitive field and it might get ugly. I’m here to advance pheromone technology to our community and I promise I won’t be holding back any secrets.

    Steve O
    PLEASE DON'T PRIVATE MESSAGE ME. I'M MONTHS BEHIND.


    This is my passion and my goal: to change the world, 1 person at a time, by empowering them with knowledge, know-how and the products that give them the ability to live their dreams.

    A dream or vision is only a pretty picture without the passion and willingness to get your ass kicked chasing after it.

    discoverXS is our adventure story! Thank you for being a part of it


    Pheromone Questions? (I like to answer the phones)
    Pheromone Answer Line: +1(901)-328-6433

  • #2
    The first molecule I had tested, some time ago was AromaFix from LotionCrafter LLC.

    AromaFix™ Fragrance Fixative
    CAS No. 618949-72-7


    AromaFix™ is a raw material derived from glucose which serves to increase significantly the lasting power of many fragrance types without imparting an odor of its own. It's a unique water-soluble oil with a broad range of miscibility in water, alcohol and most organic oils and solvents (except hydrocarbons). AromaFix™ has a distinct emollient feel and a high film gloss. It serves as a perfume fixative, anchoring top and heart notes typical of florals, herbals, citruses and lavenders. It shows the least effect when added to oriental, heavy woodsy and other base notes.

    AromaFix™ can be added to bar soap, creams, room deodorizers and perfume formulations. Simply add it to the water phase in water-containing formulations or mix with your fragrance prior to adding it into perfume formulations. AromaFix™ is not miscible with cyclomethicone so should not be used in cyclomethicone-based room and linen sprays.

    Recommended Usage Rate: 2 - 5%
    Appearance: Pale yellow, practically odorless, medium viscosity liquid
    INCI: PPG-20 Methyl Glucose Ether


    I had been doing some research on fixatives for some of the more volatile top notes of a blend. Thinking this might add a bit of staying power to molecules like DHEA, which in my opinion tend to diffuse much faster than DHEAS (its Sodium Sulfate sister), I worked the AromoFix compound into formulation during various stages. My research has determined that DPG added during formulation keeps pheromone molecules from evaporating and extends the longevity of a blend. I chose DHEA for this experiment because it acts a little like Androtics Molecule A (TAA) which is found in my favorite Androtics product Instant Shine. Through personal observation DHEA has strong pheromone qualities, unlike what other researchers say, but because of its volatility the effects are fleeting and can easily be missed. I am of the opinion however, that DHEA and Molecule A are not the same molecule.

    Test Series 1: Added to post-formulated DHEA base of SD40B. No detectable difference
    I used a set of 10 mL bottles of DHEA in Perfumers Alcohol (SD40B) time extended with Dipropylene Glycol (DPG) during formulation process. I've found the DPG added during formulation keeps pheromone molecules from evaporating and extends the longevity of a blend. Usually the DPG alone fixes the molecules in such a way with my top-secret and unique formulation process volatile molecules are already "fixed" to allow time-extension. DHEA is interesting in that it still likes to burn out fast.

    I added it post formulation by using a concentration of 2% up to 5% in increments of .10mL. There was no detectable separation of liquids although the spray felt a little bit glossy at the application point. It seemed to me as if it left a sheen, that when dried, was a noticeable compared to skin next to the immediate application point. I guess the best way to describe it was as if I painted on a low gloss polish on the area of application. I thought this would have been odd if used as a cologne fixative and applied to a persons neck. Rubbing it into the skin eliminated this but I wondered how effective it was going to by after rubbing it. Was I rubbing its effectiveness away? There was also a noticeable yellowish hue to the clear DHEA concentrate in the bottle after it was added. I kind of expected it as the AromaFix is pale yellow, but it was a bit more than expected. Actually it kind of looked sickly yellow.

    At all concentrations at this level I was not able to detect any difference in fixing the molecule. I can usually detect results within the first 30 minutes of DHEA and then start fleeting rather quickly. Even with AromaFix there was no noticeable difference. I repeated the experiment without any fragrance and then with FXS fragrance at intervals of 2% and 5%. The interesting thing is that it absolutely worked with fixing the fragrance, just not the DHEA as far as I could tell. I could detect the FXS for over 4 hours as if I had just sprayed it on until I finally had enough and washed it off.

    Test Series 2: Added to formulation process of DHEA base of SD40B. Slightly detectable difference at heavy molecule dosage.
    Added the AromoFix during the formulation period at the stage where I typically add the DPG as a Time Extender. I didn't want to waste any product as formulation is permanent and once its done, there's no going back to change it. I took a calculated decision to produce two very small batches of DHEA with AromaFix. The first was my normal formulation process with the addition of 5% AromaFix and the second was the substitution of DPG with 5% AromaFix. I was a bit concerned it wouldn't blend correctly, but everything worked fine in both instances. Again no detectable separation of liquids but it seemed as if the pale yellow hue was a bit more pronounced in both. It would seem to me the viscosity was just a bit lighter than DPG.

    To compensate for the fact that I only prepared two small batches I used a concentration of 50mcg and 100mcg both with and without FXS fragrance. This test proved the value of AromaFix with fragrances as the scent was once again noticiably detectable well after it should have dried down. It seemed very fresh until again I was tired of it and washed it off. There seemed on the 100mcg application that the DHEA lasted a bit longer than usual (added to the original formulation process with DPG), but not by much. Seemed to last about an hour longer in my estimates and was repeatable. However this serves no valid purpose because that concentration is not commercially viable for a blend. It doesn't make sense that to get an extra hour out of a volatile molecule to use such a silly amount. This is not to mention this was a single molecule test and if it did change the structure of the most Volatile, suffice it to say it would also effect the least volatile. I also didn't like the idea that if this was a fixative it should take the place of DPG rather than only be effective with it as an addition. Kind of overkill for me.


    Summary of Tests: Inconclusive test results.
    I was unable to detect any difference in the longevity of the DHEA except at very high concentrations and only for a short span. I just can't say for certain it was going to effective and therefore adding an additional ingredient to a pheromone blend wasn't in the best interest of the community. I can say absolutely this extended the FXS fragrance to a point I was bent on washing it off. Even after washing it off I could still smell it a bit which bothered me. I'm not a fragrance wearing type of guy so it might have just been me, but this was an issue.

    On a side note, while it didn't have a detectable scent, the FXS seemed to be a bit off at times. Its possible that it might have just been me and the sensitivity I developed to it during the testing. I can't say it changed the scent for sure, but to me it seemed almost as if it was sharper, more abrasive which is why I was hell-bent on removing it. I cannot say for certain when I started to notice it, but I definitely did. Surprisingly after this test I am completely fine with FXS as I smell it every single day. Even in between tests while blending FXS into orders I was perfectly fine with it. I guess the next reasonable test would be to use AromaFix with FXS as its own test. Even for the sake of science and research I don't think I can do that to myself.






    Steve O
    PLEASE DON'T PRIVATE MESSAGE ME. I'M MONTHS BEHIND.


    This is my passion and my goal: to change the world, 1 person at a time, by empowering them with knowledge, know-how and the products that give them the ability to live their dreams.

    A dream or vision is only a pretty picture without the passion and willingness to get your ass kicked chasing after it.

    discoverXS is our adventure story! Thank you for being a part of it


    Pheromone Questions? (I like to answer the phones)
    Pheromone Answer Line: +1(901)-328-6433

    Comment


    • #3
      Hedione AKA methyl dihydrojasmonate is an aroma molecule used in many commercial fragrances. Typically its middle note (heart) and can work as a smoothener to a blend, much like I feel Androtics P96 works. It has a light floral fragrance with a slightly detectable jasmine note. You might see it listed in popular fragrances as a "green" note.

      It can be used up to 35% in a fragrance blend. Some of the more specialty fragrance providers call it the magic bullet as it really has a very nice way about it when working it into a blend.

      I obtained a quantity in its crystallized form and broke it down into liquid absolute of about 50%. I tested this by adding it at my standard fragrance to Taboo of .5 mL to 10 mL pheromone blend. It really gave it a floral 'bouquet" that while nice was definitely feminine. There was a noticeable difference in diffusion and silage. Had a few more results at further distances than average results provided, however this was offset by the fragrance itself.

      I then attempted to approximate what .5 mL of dry crystals would be and added those to a bottle of Taboo directly. After a day they were completely dissolved, but they left noticeable droplets of what appeared to be an oily substance in the bottom of the bottle. Shaking the bottle over the course of several days diminished the oil droplets but did not completely resolve them. I didn't notice any difference from this experiment by doing it this way.

      I added some Hedione to the Jasmin and I totally understand why its called magic. The bouquet opened up even when stored in a 120 mL Amber glass bottle the smell of Jasmin was pronounced in the room. The diffusive tenacity is wonderful! This is an aroma molecule we are currently testing in all female fragrances with very good results. On the other hand I've also experienced a definite change in lighter fragrance compositions for men. We have successfully added it to Pepper/Nutmeg and Sultans Oud with no detectable changes to odor, but have not been so lucky with FXS, Nobility and Fresh Musk.

      This is a promising note that we might be adding as permament addition to our fragrance diffusion packages and I'll keep you posted. We are still testing but I'm sure it will be added to the ladies fragrances in the near future.

      There are lots of positives with this one.

      Steve O
      PLEASE DON'T PRIVATE MESSAGE ME. I'M MONTHS BEHIND.


      This is my passion and my goal: to change the world, 1 person at a time, by empowering them with knowledge, know-how and the products that give them the ability to live their dreams.

      A dream or vision is only a pretty picture without the passion and willingness to get your ass kicked chasing after it.

      discoverXS is our adventure story! Thank you for being a part of it


      Pheromone Questions? (I like to answer the phones)
      Pheromone Answer Line: +1(901)-328-6433

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you Steve for publishing your findings. Really helpful for DIY research enthusiasts like us.

        Should try Hedione.. btw can you shed light on whether it is a light or heavy molecule? That can help to decide which pheromones mixes would it work wonders with.

        Do you think Hedione works well for /with feminine fragrances only ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Well I'm unsure of the molecular makeup of the fragrance made by Firmenich but here is its pubchem page. There's a more detailed page on it on Bois de Jasmin which has some very good information on fragrance notes in general. What I had forgot to mention is its supposed to be a key in Eau Sauvage by Dior, which is rumored to be the base of Androtics Akuto. You might still be able to dig up some info on it if you do a google search. I remember reading about it on an old post on PheroTalk and again info might still be available.

          I think Hedione serves a very good purpose, but its not the end all. I have many other fragrance molecules that have way better diffusion. Some are more geared towards animalic scents (musks, grists...) while others have a better balance in line with particular scents. Hedione is particularly floral and unless properly steered its going to create a nice soft fragrance. It really depends on what you're going for. You can make a wonderful fragrance for men that has floral notes, but that's way out of my league.

          By no means at all do I profess to be a perfumer. While I have a knack of sometimes getting things right by sheer luck, its just that: luck! You'd be better served by checking out Basenotes for all your perfuming questions. I think Hedione is great and have worked it into some diffusion we are still testing. I'll be releasing the names and test runs of at least 20 notes I have already personally tested. A few of them blow Hedione out the water for their intended purpose of diffusion.

          Steve O
          PLEASE DON'T PRIVATE MESSAGE ME. I'M MONTHS BEHIND.


          This is my passion and my goal: to change the world, 1 person at a time, by empowering them with knowledge, know-how and the products that give them the ability to live their dreams.

          A dream or vision is only a pretty picture without the passion and willingness to get your ass kicked chasing after it.

          discoverXS is our adventure story! Thank you for being a part of it


          Pheromone Questions? (I like to answer the phones)
          Pheromone Answer Line: +1(901)-328-6433

          Comment


          • potiongirl
            potiongirl commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm a perfumer not a pheromone guru like you. I have pure ambergris tincture, if I spray it over the PSEL it just amplifies the hell out of it! Have you ever played with Ambergris? Potiongirl

        • #6
          Is this the new diffusion tech that you use in Evolve oil's latest batch?

          Comment


          • #7
            Nice thread. Did you evrr hear about Iso E super? Thundr fro pherotruth uses it in his mixes and the diffusion and longetivity of his products are way above average.

            Comment


            • #8
              Just read that Iso E super is not that great at silage. Perhaps its something else in Thundr's mixes as far as diffusion goes.

              Comment


              • #9
                I have used ISO E Super and tested it extensively. It does an okay job, but works best when pre-mixed into a cologne. It has a slight balsam scent to it. I'll be making a full report on it when I get the chance.

                Steve O
                PLEASE DON'T PRIVATE MESSAGE ME. I'M MONTHS BEHIND.


                This is my passion and my goal: to change the world, 1 person at a time, by empowering them with knowledge, know-how and the products that give them the ability to live their dreams.

                A dream or vision is only a pretty picture without the passion and willingness to get your ass kicked chasing after it.

                discoverXS is our adventure story! Thank you for being a part of it


                Pheromone Questions? (I like to answer the phones)
                Pheromone Answer Line: +1(901)-328-6433

                Comment


                • #10
                  ISO super E had decent projection but projection and salage are not exactly the same thing. Something can project but isn't always identifiable, good silage is almost a trail to you which is identifiable. You need a good fixative or something for ISO super E or it doesn't always work right in a pheromone application. At least in my experience and reading about ISO super E. If you get it to work it can be amazing but In pheromone application it sounds tricky. Thundr has been playing with singles and mixing oils to improve projection with additional fixatives for a while. Steve clearly found something special with blending and his diffusion system to make it last a long time and be efficacious. For some reason I don't think Steve's mixing methods would work with ISO super E, ISO has reported phero like properties and if it binds to a molecule could throw off diffusion in a bad way. Purely speculative, but I imagine that is a large part of why thundrs products work well. Thundr plays with modifiers for molecules and works for amplifiers of other molecules. Like adding P80 to Rone to make it far more authoritative. But something is to be said of how those molecules play out. At some point a molecule like p80 would diffuse and you are left with Rone. And their is a reason p80 isn't mixed with Rone as a product, it steers a product into one specific direction. A diatribe here but every phero has it's place. Another vendor or you could mix the same contents or either Steve's or thundrs products and get something very different. Steve's products are not AD's. You cannot mix it at home and get the same result, for this I am positive. This is pheromone technology, if you will, being taken to a new level.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Very insightful Kimba. I was going to ask you about its phero like properties but I found some info that gave me an idea of what it could do. Probably going to order a bottle of this and check it out sometime or another. If anything, sounds like it would be an excellent fragrance.

                    Comment


                    • SteveO
                      SteveO commented
                      Editing a comment
                      You can't really smell it on its on. Its to big of a molecule. Needs other stuff

                  • #12
                    On the perfumers sites they claim it smells woodsy. I dunno. Never heard of it until a couple days ago.

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      It has a smell for sure, but the molecule is very large so smelling it out the bottle is not happening. Until you mix it in something else

                      Steve O
                      PLEASE DON'T PRIVATE MESSAGE ME. I'M MONTHS BEHIND.


                      This is my passion and my goal: to change the world, 1 person at a time, by empowering them with knowledge, know-how and the products that give them the ability to live their dreams.

                      A dream or vision is only a pretty picture without the passion and willingness to get your ass kicked chasing after it.

                      discoverXS is our adventure story! Thank you for being a part of it


                      Pheromone Questions? (I like to answer the phones)
                      Pheromone Answer Line: +1(901)-328-6433

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Ahh ok. Thanks

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Steve I have a quick question for you regarding the diffusion of none. Say I have a simple mix of none and Alpha Androstenol, would it be possible to increase the rate of diffusion of the none but still keep the same rate of diffusion of the Anol? So once the nol has gone the none has also gone?

                          Comment


                          • #16
                            Originally posted by SteveO View Post
                            It has a smell for sure, but the molecule is very large so smelling it out the bottle is not happening. Until you mix it in something else

                            As I understand it, this is the same problem with oxytocin and why it does not work as a pheromone. Although a couple companies claim to use it and one claims to have a synth that is way more powerful and overcomes the weight problem.

                            Comment


                            • #17
                              Originally posted by GHOST View Post
                              Steve I have a quick question for you regarding the diffusion of none. Say I have a simple mix of none and Alpha Androstenol, would it be possible to increase the rate of diffusion of the none but still keep the same rate of diffusion of the Anol? So once the nol has gone the none has also gone?
                              Yes its what I do in all my enone heavy blends by standard. Unfortunately I'm not willing to share this secret with anyone as its something I discovered quite by accident.

                              Steve O
                              PLEASE DON'T PRIVATE MESSAGE ME. I'M MONTHS BEHIND.


                              This is my passion and my goal: to change the world, 1 person at a time, by empowering them with knowledge, know-how and the products that give them the ability to live their dreams.

                              A dream or vision is only a pretty picture without the passion and willingness to get your ass kicked chasing after it.

                              discoverXS is our adventure story! Thank you for being a part of it


                              Pheromone Questions? (I like to answer the phones)
                              Pheromone Answer Line: +1(901)-328-6433

                              Comment


                              • #18
                                I thought it was the other way round, that you slowed down the diffusion of the socials to match the none. Shows what I know lol.

                                Comment


                                • SteveO
                                  SteveO commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  Its a little bit of both.

                                • SteveO
                                  SteveO commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  Let me think of how I might be able to help you without a reveal. There are strategies.

                              • #19
                                Originally posted by Magnus View Post


                                As I understand it, this is the same problem with oxytocin and why it does not work as a pheromone. Although a couple companies claim to use it and one claims to have a synth that is way more powerful and overcomes the weight problem.
                                I would think everyone uses the synthetic - Pitocin and Syntocinon are the names. Its not so much about the size of the molecule as I am to understand, its the half life is like 3 seconds when used as an aerosol. Its completely unproven to work without direct inhalation of a significant amount. I had some and the only response I could ever get was as a nasal inhalant. I had a boat load of the stuff and I sat right next to the bottle and notta. Applied it as a mone, nothing. Inhaled the crap out of it and not much. Stuck that stuff up my nose and yeah it was great. I felt really good, inspired and it was easy to quit some bad habits.

                                With that said you'd have to use a significant amount to get a result and very up close and personal. Here's the kicker though: its a controlled substance so the amount you are allowed to use is tiny. This is not to mention it induces labor so you have a responsibility to alert others of the medical implications if using. It just seemed to much of a hassle to mess around with.

                                That was my experience anyway.

                                Steve O
                                PLEASE DON'T PRIVATE MESSAGE ME. I'M MONTHS BEHIND.


                                This is my passion and my goal: to change the world, 1 person at a time, by empowering them with knowledge, know-how and the products that give them the ability to live their dreams.

                                A dream or vision is only a pretty picture without the passion and willingness to get your ass kicked chasing after it.

                                discoverXS is our adventure story! Thank you for being a part of it


                                Pheromone Questions? (I like to answer the phones)
                                Pheromone Answer Line: +1(901)-328-6433

                                Comment


                                • #20
                                  Well that certainly gives you some insight into the companies that claim to use it in their products then...I can think of a couple and one of them has a fairly good rep. lol

                                  LAL...

                                  True now.......they just look shady. lol Half of their names are ripoffs from AD.

                                  Comment

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