Etiocholanolone

[Scottie2Hottie]

Could this be one of the putatives or xsr series? I suspect XSteveO will never let us know.

[eternitys_child]

Scottie2Hottie I just read its wikipedia article... Considering it's a positive modulator of the Gaba A receptor, I do believe it has high potential to be used as a pheromone/ putative/molecule. Modulating gaba in this way is the exact way alcohol works on the brain. With that being the case, it would be highly useful in blends that promote relaxation and wellbeing. IF this p/p/m is active when sprayed topically, that is.

[Scottie2Hottie]

Well if it is a neurosteroidal hormone then yes probably so. After all, pheros are merely hormones that we excrete when there is an overabundance in our aystem.

I haven't really spent too much time researching this molecule but I do wonder if perhaps it's one of the putatives.

[Scottie2Hottie]

Been doing more reading. Considering xsr37 is thought to function much in the way that EpiRone does I wonder if it is, indeed, Etiocholanolone.

[eternitys_child]

I see that somewhere on Pherotruth, KIMBA posted a list from a person named Diane. Not sure who Diane is, but apparently she uses etiocholanolone

http://pherotruth.com/Thread-P96-Any-ideas-on-what-it-is?pid=93809#pid93809

[Scottie2Hottie]

I did some more research. I don't think xsr37 is Etiocholanolone after all. Etio is a 5 beta androstan and xsr37 is a 5 alpha androstan. I've been digging and digging and the only 5 alpha androstan I can find is Androsterone.

Diane was the founder and proprietor of I believes a now defunct pheromone complany. She has the most extensive knowledge of molecules I've ever run across. Encyclopedic, in a word.

[eternitys_child]

ROFL I just saw that you posted in that same thread at the last page Scottie2Hottie

[Scottie2Hottie]

Indeed I did. Lol I'm surprised anyone remembers me from PheroTalk. I haven't posted there in years. But apparently my posts are in the archives.

[Scottie2Hottie]

I did find 5 alpha androstane aka EtioAlloCholane. Upon further research it appears that EtioAlloCholane is actually synonymous with the generic Androstane which exists in one of two isomer forms: 5 alpha or 5 beta. It is classed along with a grouping of C19 steroids listed below:

• Androstane: Dehydrogenated: Androstene
• Androstadiene
• Androstatriene; Substituted: Androstanol
• Androstenol
• Androstanone
• Androstenone
• Androstanediol
• Androstenediol
• Androstanedione
• Androstenedione
• Androstenetrione
• Androstanolone
• Androstenolone
• Androstadienol
• Androstadienone; Etiocholane

You probably recognize several of them.

[Scottie2Hottie]

Something just dawned on me. Etiocholanolone is an Adrosterone isomer. Wouldn't it stand to reason that there is some connection between Etiocholanolone and EtioAlloCholane? And therefore also an Androsterone isomer? Yet there is one thing NOT on that list above: Androsterone. If EtioAlloCholane is a variant of Etiocolanolone and Androsterone and has 19 carbon atoms wouldn't Androsterone also be classified as a C19 steroid?

[GorchFock]

Yo should really start with the basic chemistry of steroid-hormones to prevent this kind of confusion.

Of course Androsterone is a C19-steroid and a 5a-androstan, one of the most important and abundant endogenous substances of this clss at that.

EtioAllo does not seem to be an endogenous molecule and as such could only be a synthetic isomer of Rone. Epietiocholanolone is a natural isomer of the 5a-androstanes, its pathway is via 5beta-reductase and 3beta-HSD

[Scottie2Hottie]

Yes I read that EtioAllo is not endogenous and therefore a synthetic isomer. And it was my understanding that Androsterone was a C19 and a 5 alpha androstan. What I DIDN'T understand is why it didn't make the list. I found an extensive (exhaustive?) list of Androstanes (which I haven't posted) and it includes Androsterone.

While I have a solid understanding of the major molecules, I don't claim to be expert. I'm still learning about the more esoteric players. Often the more I dig, the more I find incomplete or conflicting information. It can be confusing. My research on Etiocholanolone started because of something XSteveO said which seemed to class Etio and EpiRone together. It led me to wonder if xsr37 might be Etio given car37 has been reported to function in a similar manner to EpiRone.

@GorrchFock what are your thoughts? Do you think it's possible xsr37 is Etiocolanolone?

[GorchFock]

Ok - it's a problem with online sources, especially those that pop-up at google's normal mode. Endocrinology-data is often incomplete or otherwise incorrect.
Sometimes a textbook of medicine or biochemistry is till the better source, I routinely access a university-bibliothec and the discrepancy between information in endocrinology to some online-sources, especially wiki, is astonishing.

Epirone and Etio are distinctly different as you already figured out. Etio is the 5ß-reductase pthway "analouge" to Androsterone, EpiEtio would be the same to Epiandrosterone.

I read that PXS states that Androsterone is well paired/steered with Epirone or Etio - if it is XSR37 I don't know. Possibly not, as you also already found ot, XSR3 is stated to be a 5a-androstan.

Can't tell what Etio would "convey" as a pheromone-statement. It seems proven that the Etio to Rone ratio is elevated in gay men, but that does not say anything per se. 5ß-reductase hormones are poorly understood and researched in general.

[Scottie2Hottie]

Thanks for all the great info GorchFock . Sounds like Etio is something to be avoided. If you don't get the ratio just right it will convey the wrong signature. I've read similar things about progesterone and progesterone type molecules , i.e., metabolites. That just makes me more keenly interested in knowing what xsr37 actually is

[Scottie2Hottie]

Did some reading in the Journal Of Endocrinology and it lead me in a new direction but just confused me further. It lead me to androstanediol.....but which form. It says that 3 beta, 5 alpha androstanediol is an endogenous steroid hormone. It is a 5α-reduced and 17β-hydroxylated metabolite of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) as well as a 3β-hydroxylated metabolite of dihydrotestosterone (DHT). 3β-Diol is a selective, potent, high-affinity full agonist of the ERβ, and hence, an estrogen.^[2] It has higher affinity for this receptor than estradiol.^{[2][contradictory]} In contrast to ERβ, 3β-diol does not bind to the androgen receptor. It's also an intermediate of Etiocholanolone. Then if you look at 3 alpha, 5 beta androstanediol it says it's and intermediate of EpiRone. Upon further investigation you find that it is an endogenous, naturally occurring steroid that is formed as a metabolite of testosterone. It is formed from 5β-dihydrotestosterone (after 5β-reduction of testosterone) and is converted into etiocholanolone. But nothing about whether it binds to estrogen or androgen receptors. And the pathway from DHEA to Etio would be completely different from DHT to Etio. They run parallel and I've found no cross link, enzyme wise, from DHEA to DHT except via Testerone to DHT. If you look at the metabolic chain DHEA precedes Testosterone which precedes DHT which precedes Androstanediol. Then how can Adrostanediol be a metabolite of DHEA? There is no direct connection between the two. Furthermore, DHT is an intermediary between Testosterone and Androstanediol. There has to be some side-chain conversion that I can't find anywhere. All that aside, the information I could find seems to imply that Etiocholanolone is an estrogen. Which leads me to wonder how it could possibly function like EpiRone.

Perhaps this diagram can better explain what I'm getting at.

[GorchFock]

It's often in papers that they say "is a metabolite of..." and then mention not a direct precursor but a substance higher up on the pathway. In tht sense, 3ß-androstanediol is a metabolite of DHEA.
3ß-anediol is a good starting point to go into the intricacies of the action of these steroids. ACtion and binding on the ERß does no mean it is an estrogen. It is clearly an androgen, a direct metabolite of DHT, the strongest androgen. It can displace estradiol from the ERß - which healthwise, seems a very good thing to me in general.

Somewhere I assume you mixed things up.

3ß-diol is derived of 5a-DHT and undergoes back and forth conversion to Epiandrosterone in sm tissues.
3a-diol is derived of 5a-DHT and undergoes back and forth conversion to Androsterone in some places.

then again, as we discussed in the previous posts, there are the 5ß-reductase-metabolites. Both are also called Androtanediols becuae of their molecular shape, and there are also the two isomers 3alpha and 3beta because of 3alpha- and 3beta-dehydrosteroidgenase. But these are derived from 5ß-DHT. Thus these androstanediols undergo back and forth conversion with Etio and EpiEtio respectively. These pathways stray apart at Testosterone. So 5a,3ß,17ß-Androstanediol is not a precursor of Etio or EpiEtio while 5ß,3ß,17ß - and 5ß,3ß,17ß are the precusrsor. Easy to mess up some of the enzyme-abbreviations obviously.

Also, there is another steroidgenesis-pathway, called the backdoor at play in some tissues - it does not involve Testosterone.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15519890

there, progesterone is central, via it's metabolite 17-Hydroxyprogesterone.

Unless SteveO discloses XSR37's identitiy, I think speculation is futile. Allthough I think it is one of the more "normal", probaby endogenous substances.

[Scottie2Hottie]

Thanks again GorchFock . I greatly appreciate your in depth knowledge in these matters.. It's like a maze and one that you've obviously traversed. Seems that deeper I dig the more confusing it is rather than enlightening. It's been 30 yrs since I studied biochemistry, neuropharmacology and the like. I even did pheromone research back in the day but in that realm it was a simpler time. Things have changed dramatically.

At this point I'm not even trying to confirm what xsr37 is anymore. I'm trying to pieces together a puzzle and understand what a molecule like Etio is all about. Where it fits in the scheme of things. How it originates and evolves.

Thanks again I'm really enjoying this discussion. I only wish I knew how you came about all this information so I could explore further. I've really been getting my geek on. Lol

[Katyrose]

Very often I come across this drug in stores and it arouses great interest in me. I would like to hear more information about it and perhaps the experience of using it if someone has it.

[Katyrose]

Very often I come across this drug in stores and it arouses great interest in me. I would like to hear more information about it and perhaps the experience of using it if someone has it. Since I visit my favorite gym very often, I have muscle pains. In order to reduce them, I use Ostarine for Sale, which the doctor prescribed for me. But to be honest, I'm pretty tired of this drug, and therefore I hope that your drug, which you told us about, will be a worthy replacement for mine. I really hope that I will be able to find and order it, if a prescription is needed, then I will ask my doctor to prescribe it. Good luck to everyone!