Other Vendors vs PXS, have you considered the goal?

[knowledgeispower]

I'm curious to people's thoughts on this. I see a lot of people here mixing products like Wolf, Voodoo, etc from other companies with PXS products. I see no problem in doing that, it makes sense, especially if you like a product from one vendor that gives a vibe PXS products don't.

But consider this for a moment:

My theory is that all pheromones work to give an image of you. They do not work separately but combined. For example, we all know if you drench in eNONE you will come off as a sex beast that may turn off (or on) women (like SOB). We know if you drench in A-nol/B-nol you will have a lot of conversations! We know if you drench in eRONE you will come off as an Alpha-Male not to mess with, etc, etc. You get my drift. Some mones complement other mones, and some mones are completely fine on their own. But what if you mix all of them together?

In my post here: https://discoverxs.com/forum/main-ca...oduct-contents I've made a spreadsheet of all PXS products and what their contents are. This is to help you formulate your "image".

This is completely just my opinion and you do not need to agree with it, but my opinion is for most situations, a well-rounded image is what you want to convey. You want to convey some status with eRONE, you want to convey some sexual interest with eNONE, you want to convey some social skills with -nols, you want to convey comfort with -dienone, and sexiness with -anone, and possibly convey competition with a tiny bit of cops.

With PXS, what I am trying to do, is find a perfect all-day everyday product. This doesn't mean that this product will be used for every day or situation however. If in a business encounter I want to up my eRONE and -nols, if in a dating scene I want to up the anone and enone, if sex is on the table more enone, etc, etc. However, for most situations, I like to have a well-rounded image that conveys all the above that will be attractive to women (or your spouse) while at the same time garners you respect and friendship from the men. This is my goal, and this is why I prefer to stay with PXS.

Again this is based on my theory. Personally, I prefer to pick a company I trust, that gives me products at concentrations that are known, and tells me whats in them, and is sourced from a good quality source with a good diffusion technology, and that is PXS for me. Now sure Voodoo, Wolf, etc may work. They are great products no-doubt. But for my uses, I do not see how I can use them in my go-to mix, maybe more as standalone products.

That being said, the reason I created a spreadsheet to show you all the PXS product mone contents in 1 glance is to help you formulate that go-to formula for you. For me, right now it seems to be Ascend w/cops + Xist + Taboo + Cohesion (1 spray of each) and trading out the Taboo with Evolve for night game. Obviously in a business situation I probably wouldn't need the Xist/Taboo/Cohesion but again this is for an all-day mix I can wear to the store, to the gym, at home, shopping, at work, etc.

Anyways long story short, I am curious why others mix products from different vendors. For example, with LAL products, while they are great products and great company (or even AD for that matter), I don't know what mones I am getting and at one concentration. So how can I mix them together "hoping" for a good result? The possible mathematical permutations to achieving the right mix for you at that point will be infinitely hard to calculate.

The reason I say this is because it makes more sense to me, to cover my bases with PXS products in the mone categories, and reserve other vendors for specific situational events where Wolf may be better than Ascend or vice versa (as one example).

Xcc I know you brought up variety, and I am not discounting that - especially at home, I am talking more for a day-to-day signature at work, meeting new people, etc.

Lastly, the way I see it, all mones work synergistically. You want to light up as many neuronal pathways as possible of the opposite gender to make you the "IT" man or woman. (in my opinion, can be disproven through trial and error I suppose!) As in, you want to convey sexy, funny, social, status, sexual, etc at the same time. Yes the concentrations and ratios here are crucial for this. This is why we have to do trial and error. But its alot easier when you have for example products like Ascend, Cohesion, etc that already give specific vibes based on those ratios and one can only hope that when mixed the vibes do not morph. I just find it personally a waste of effort to begin mixing products from different vendors as you really won't be able to empirically figure out what ratios of what mones you are conveying (and lets be honest, even PXS has trade secrets so we will never know exactly what mone concentrations we get from a specific mone in PXS products nor from any vendor for that matter - not including the secret mones!)

This is why I love Ascend w/cops + Xist + Taboo + Cohesion, it gives you just the right concentrations for the core mones like eRONE, eNONE, Dienone, aNONE, and social -nols for day to day activities while also sprinkling in some of the fancier mones and putative derivatives we know little about. For other situations you can manipulate this to increase the concentration of the one of the core mones or take out the cops depending on your situation! I believe this is what XSteveO was trying to achieve with the ACE pack, I just think the Evolve isn't so great at work so I personally swap Xist + Taboo for the Evolve for day game...and Xist is honestly such a great addition I wouldn't be surprised if they rename it the ACEX pack!

[KateD]

Very interesting thread there and intriguing thoughts. I would like to hear from the others on how they go about mixing, why and how great and consistent are the results

[Sasharana]

knowledgeispower. You are completely right! FSX really best vendor. Best mones- unbelievable fast shipping (11-13 days to Russia) - full line of mones. But I buy pheromones from other company too because I can not find same from FSX. For example I very like T-150 stick from LaL it's testosterone gainer and it's cool. Or Voodoo - it's smell like paradise)
if FSX will create same product of course I will buy it from FSX. LaL delivery is very worse for example I wait one of my order 30 days and it's not in Russia else.

[Xcc]

With PXS, what I am trying to do, is find a perfect all-day everyday product.

knowledgeispower Alright, I got strong ideas about this. There is trouble in bro-paradise because I'm going to disagree with you on a number of your points. I have a great deal of respect for you. I love reading your posts. You are obviously a very intelligent man in a number of ways.

Now, we are going to disagree on a few things. And as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing because that's how we learn and also know there is no one right answer, just options.

Now I think PXS formulas are so specific there really isn't a general every day formula for everything. That's why I love Wolf. Professional. Date. Casual. Errands. I put it on and forget it. I do it in drops (less than 9), which should be about 2 sprays. I use PXS for specific goals, specific situations, specific outcomes, etc.

Again this is based on my theory. Personally, I prefer to pick a company I trust, that gives me products at concentrations that are known, and tells me whats in them, and is sourced from a good quality source with a good diffusion technology, and that is PXS for me.

Ok I agree with that comment about "what are the ingredients?" Liquid Alchemy Labs seems to be very secretive. I wish they would list their ingredients. Pheromone Treasures is only partially revealing too. But then again, PXS may or may not list all their ingredients. There is that clause that says so if you read the advert carefully. But with PXS, you do get a better idea to understand the product if you understand mones.

Anyways long story short, I am curious why others mix products from different vendors. For example, with LAL products, while they are great products and great company (or even AD for that matter), I don't know what mones I am getting and at one concentration. So how can I mix them together "hoping" for a good result? The possible mathematical permutations to achieving the right mix for you at that point will be infinitely hard to calculate.

Wow! You're getting hard to argue with. You are right. It takes time. I've taken the time to do so. Does everyone have the time? No. So you have a good point here. But if you do happen to have the time or make the time, I personally believe the results and knowledge are well worth it!

Xcc I know you brought up variety, and I am not discounting that - especially at home, I am talking more for a day-to-day signature at work, meeting new people, etc.

Wolf. For every where. Anything. Any time.

Lastly, the way I see it, all mones work synergistically. You want to light up as many neuronal pathways as possible of the opposite gender to make you the "IT" man or woman. (in my opinion, can be disproven through trial and error I suppose!) As in, you want to convey sexy, funny, social, status, sexual, etc at the same time. Yes the concentrations and ratios here are crucial for this. This is why we have to do trial and error. But its alot easier when you have for example products like Ascend, Cohesion, etc that already give specific vibes based on those ratios and one can only hope that when mixed the vibes do not morph.

Agreed. But I will add that I don't hope, I test.

I just find it personally a waste of effort to begin mixing products from different vendors as you really won't be able to empirically figure out what ratios of what mones you are conveying (and lets be honest, even PXS has trade secrets so we will never know exactly what mone concentrations we get from a specific mone in PXS products nor from any vendor for that matter - not including the secret mones!)

I disagree that it's a waste of effort. I think it's about choice and priorities. You're in graduate school. You're busy as heck. You also have a wife. You have other things to focus on besides testing mones. I can completely understand that.

I'm single. Not in graduate school. I have time. For me, I love examining mones and their potentials.

But I'm looking at behaviors rather than chemicals. I would like to know what chemicals are in a formula, as it would help me understand and correlate. However, I don't necessarily need to know. I look at the results that happen right in front of me.

I see what the results of Wolf are and make notes. Then I see the results of XiSt and make notes. Then I wear Wolf and XiSt together and make notes. Then I get out my notes and look. Are there any observations or behaviors that were missing? Muted? Amplified? Any new behaviors?

The way I see it, this is partly about our own goals and priorities. On one hand, we both value knowledge, education, and science. On the other hand, I have different areas to focus my time on. That's how we learn from each other is through our differences.

I'm glad you are here knowledgeispower because you are obviously one who craves knowledge.

[KateD]

bro paradise rolf/lmao....you guys know how to agree to disagree..the love will still be there

[MychaelAngelo1985]

Wow!! Very detailed...

[knowledgeispower]

Xcc you make very good points. I guess my fear of the mystery (like LAL) products is like my experience with AndroticsDirect. AD was a great company and my products worked for the most part (not as great as PXS but they got hits). When AD went down the tubes I was dismayed...I could not get back the MX's that worked so well for me, and very few people knew how to make them.

Maybe I'm an apocalypse theorizer, but you can never guarantee a company will be around forever. Who knows what happens in the future? I sure hope PXS is around in 30 years, but what if they're not? People age, companies change, etc. If anything happened to PXS I would still be ok, because I could "roughly" remake those products that worked best for me. But what if LAL goes down the tubes? Could you remake Wolf? Could you remake Voodoo? I refuse to use a product from a company that won't tell me whats in it, because if I rely on it for a day to day signature and I can't remake it myself if you know what hits the fan...I'm out of luck and that just sucks lol....Pheromones are not like other products. When you find a pheromone signature that vibes with you and gets you great hits, its a life-changer, and you can't rely on hope that the product will be around in the future. That's why I always buy 30 ml upgrades when I can. Because you never know....I still have a ton of AD products because I always bought the biggest size, and while I don't use them as much anymore, I am comforted knowing I still have good quality mones that I can't get anymore if I wanted to.

Anyways I see what you're saying. Wolf seems like a great product standalone, I'll try it out. Yes I am busier, but also as a scientist I like empirical evidence. I like knowing what's in my products. It helps me experiment more and at the same time it's more statistically validated. Maybe wolf doesn't have a lot of A1, maybe not enough eNONE? I wouldn't know, but with PXS at least I can formulate my own go-to mix which is what I am trying to do with my self-testing The problem I have with companies not disclosing is that you end up relying on marketing + reports from users. The problem is there is probably a large placebo effect that comes from that (which honestly is quite fine, I mean how much self-effects are placebo? We don't know but I'm sure there is some of that as well). I just know how unreliable humans can be in reporting and group think + placebo means a lot of times products may only do things because you "think" they do them.

But with PXS, I know my product at least contains x, y, z so I am confident that certain effects are real because those mones have been proven in many peer-reviewed papers to be real. Sure there are undisclosed molecules, they have trade secrets, every company does, and sure we don't know how much of each individual mone there is, but at least we can attempt to reformulate the products if the company ever disappears! That's what I love about PXS, they are more committed to contributing to science and understanding how mones affect our behavior than trying to make a profit! Obviously they got to make a profit, every company does, they gotta pay employees, bills, salaries, etc. And I'm sure SteveO doesn't want to be working for free! But mad respect to XSteveO for trying to be transparent. This helps everyone and makes people like me want to be exclusive to his products for that very reason!

And No hard feelings bro, we have to engage in these healthy disagreements! This is how both of us and others learn!

[theLaw]

Trust but verify........LAL has a near-flawless reputation.......nothing like Androtics.

[knowledgeispower]

Sorry did not mean to put them on the same plane, just meant that the mystery of what is in their products is worrisome if they ever took a turn south like AD we would be out of luck

[theLaw]

I get it. This has been my main issue with Alpha Dream.

[knowledgeispower]

Also this may just be the nerd in me, but one thing I did when I joined PXS is looked at their evolution. You can do this yourself:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120903...eromonexs.com/

It's pretty awesome seeing how they've developed and improved over time (you can also look at the formulation changes in concentrations, mones, etc, in individual products using that website!)

What I love about PXS is how it was developed. Going back through XSteveO 's posts on PheroTruth it was very enlightening to see the level of care he put into developing the products. Xist, was a product developed between SteveO and another member for example and look at how well praised that product is! LAL is a great company, but I don't think the level of innovation and transparency will ever be like PXS. Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all suggesting their products are bad or their company is bad, in fact I think SteveO admires them as one of the better companies out there and quite frankly they are very high on my scale just by what I have read about them.

But like you said, for my limited time and money, and honestly for my own future well-being, I would rather dedicate my time and money to a company that is transparent. After all, its not like any company has an edge over another. Mones and putatives are well known, the majority's effects are well known, and the primary mones we all know like eNONE, eRONE, etc are no secret. Obviously the concentrations, buffering, etc are very important, but SteveO has put in a lot of effort fine-tuning his system (check out his historical posts from 2011 pre-PXS on PheroTruth!).

I know I sound like a fanboy - I'm not, and I'm not being paid to write this (I wish! KateD @Leslie feel free to hook a brother up! ) lol just kidding, but seriously when you love a person for the work they do, its hard to support any other company unless they provide me a compelling reason to (and sadly user reported reviews are not convincing enough to this budding scientist).

Again I'm being repetitive here probably, but the point is that there is nothing special that AD and LAL have that PXS doesn't. It's not like 1 company has discovered some secret molecule the others haven't. In fact, them hiding their ingredients to me just suggests they don't want to disclose that their mones are probably similar to the mones used by other companies.

[KateD]

You would be surprised how little effect I have on what goes in your package.Leslie however is your girl,and she is easily persuaded with junk food..you heard it here first

[knowledgeispower]

Well then KateD you're my girl when I need to push a question up to the powers at be! SteveO these days is harder to reach than the Pope! haha

[Leslie]

yes, food is the way to my heart <3 lol

[Xcc]

knowledgeispower I can sympathize. I had a GREAT mone supplier! His stuff worked AWESOME! I had no idea what was in them. But I was having a sex and dating life most men would envy. One day, he just vanished. No store. Not answering his phone. Not answering his emails. WTF?!

And with him vanishing, my dating and sex life took a down turn. It was a depressing time for me.

I panicked! I had him as my supplier for years. I tried other stuff from other vendors but it was all shit! I was without new pheromones for a few years and was very covetous of my remaining supply. Then I found LAL, Pheromone Treasures, and PXS. It was a huge relief and joy!

I don't know about other companies, but those 3 have products that work and they stand by their products. In terms of "can I make my own Wolf", I'm convinced the universe will provide and I'll find something else. I have faith in myself to see myself through any mone crisis because of what I learn and who I am.

In the mean time, I've stocked up. I have substitutes. I test and test. I learn and learn.

Look back on this thread. Notice our perceptions and outlooks. You'll see some differences. I would guess that part of what is happening is that you've found products to help your marriage and you want to make sure you're stocked up to keep your marriage good. If that is so, I think that is wise. I think it's also wise to be able to look in the mirror and know that it's YOU she married, rather than the pheromones. It's YOU who made this happen. It's YOU who made this succeed. It's YOU who can keep the momentum going in a positive direction. The mones are just there at your bidding and along for the ride. Perhaps shift your faith more to you, and less to the mones. Give yourself credit because I know I give you TONS of credit for what you've accomplished with mones because it was YOU!

[MychaelAngelo1985]

Yes yes I agree!!!!????, i love reading both of your Posts Xcc and knowledgeispower.

[Xcc]

theLaw Agreed! LAL has honored its return policy with me. Most of their products I've used I LOVE! The ones I didn't I just swapped out for ones I wanted. LAL is innovative and edgy.

[knowledgeispower]

So I guess my problem comes down to this:

As a scientist I am trained to believe that A + B = C as in 1 + 1 = 2. With pheromones we are in uncharted territory. We think 1 + 1 = 2 when it's possible 1 + 1 =3 through activation of simultaneous neural pathways, etc. The problem with this is it is hard to figure that out from a company when you don't know if you have A or B or C in what you're wearing. So for all we know Wolf is 1 + 2 and Voodoo is 1 + 3 and Wolf + Voodo = 5.

Do you catch my drift?

Here's the other problem with self-testing: unless you are testing mones on a specific target (your spouse, significant other, or a target you're trying to attract) the reports are not going to be the same (although that target could also be different and won't be static based on mood, time of month, other factors).

Say guy A goes to a bar and wear Wolf, he gets great hits. The next day he wear Voodoo, doesn't get any hits. Does that mean Voodoo didn't work? Maybe it didn't mesh with his personality? Maybe the bar was too crowded and his cloud diffused improperly? Maybe the girls around him were on their period? etc etc etc. Lets say guy A repeats this 10x....now unless the person empirically tried 1 drop of each product individually and upped the dose each time he visited the bar and recorded them each night, his effects will be infinitely different each time. And even if he did, the situation will be different each day because the women will be different and even his own mood and personality will be different from day to day. Now lets say this guy wears the same mones shopping, or around work, etc, each time the situation is different. It will never be scientifically easy for him to prove what works for him.

Now say guy A wears only eNONE to the bar at 20 mcg and gets good hits; he tries it a few days and then goes to 50 mcg and gets bad hits. He realizes 50 mcg is too much and decreases it. Sure 1 variable is changing every time (the concentration), but guess what, other variables are also changing (different people, different context, etc). What about these variables:

Variable 1: the context (bar, work, shopping, beach, etc)
Variable 2: the women around him (on their period, dating other guys, promiscuous, reserved, not interesting in tall/short/whatever guys)
Variable 3: the weather, a/c, diffusion
Variable 4: concentration of mones
Variable 5: oil vs alcohol carrier
Variable 6: if the guy is feeling good that day (affecting his own personality and his "game")

See my problem? You want to control as many variables as you can. Meaning same product, same context, same diffusion, weather, carrier, etc. You can only control so much! There is so much variability in these things its damn impossible to replicate unless we had lab mice in a lab! lol...but you get my point?

PXS solves some of this but not everything. But when people new to mones come here they usually will start with like 3 drops of x, 4 sprays of y, and 2 drops of z and go use it at xyz location and say "it doesn't work".

The reason I started this thread is because I wanted people to consciously think about these things. There's nothing wrong with liking a product from a reputable company like LAL. I just don't personally see the advantage when in reality there is nothing special about one company vs the other (other than user reviews which granted are good for both LAL and PXS and quality of customer service/products). The only advantage PXS has is knowing what you are getting, and knowing the quality + diffusion tech you have is top notch. Everything else to me on the other hand PXS can create just as well as LAL. Sure LAL has great products as does PXS, but to me, PXS will be a better ROI (my time) in the long run.

Maybe this will just end up as a personal thing with me, because like I said I like empirical evidence and its hard for me to test a product I can't empirically analyze (This is why I care so dang much whether Cohesion still contains DHEA or not! Hopefully we get our answer soon lol! I'm looking at you idle )

No hard feelings...keep the discussion going, I like the thoughts this is bringing out!

[theLaw]

Lot of newbies want to win the lottery.........without buying a ticket.

[knowledgeispower]

Yup. And part of it is marketing effects and the great reviews they hear. The marketing is real most of the time, but it takes effort to find out how to achieve that.

[knowledgeispower]

Although I swear the effects I got with my wife last night were unreal out of a marketing ad lol (read my journal)

[Xcc]

knowledgeispower I can sympathize with your concern about confounding variables. So how might we control for that in a naturalistic setting? Baselines? Convergent validity? Divergent validity? Multiple tests? A-B designs?

[knowledgeispower]

knowledgeispower I can sympathize with your concern about confounding variables. So how might we control for that in a naturalistic setting? Baselines? Convergent validity? Divergent validity? Multiple tests? A-B designs?

It's not easy I will admit. Now here's the problem, there will never be a way to isolate for every condition. The easiest way is to have a girlfriend/significant other/target that you will always see in a particular setting (co-worker, classmate, wife/gf at home, etc). That way you got the setting variability down. Then you have to figure out the carrier variability, and to be quite honest alcohol is the best way to do testing because it hits fast and hard while I would only recommend oils after you figured out the mones that work best for you using alcohol. Then the next step after that is to test at least 3 times per mone per concentration (so monday tuesday wednesday in a row for example of 1 spray Xist each day or Taboo, etc).

But you know what? One day she may be on her period, the other day she may be ovulating. One day she will wake up in a good mood, the other day she is stressed about something in her life. That is why you need to ideally test 3 times per product in the same setting to rule out that variability (preferably not back to back days like I suggested above as that would not give enough time for "life issues" to clear up). Maybe spaced out 1 week each.

As you can see it takes a lot of patience, time, and money, and most people don't want to do that, they just want effects. Which is perfectly fine, but then mixing products from other vendors even complicates the matter more you know? And then if that product is no longer available/viable? You're out of luck and have to start all over again.

All I suggest is people think long and hard about their strategy, their setting, their target, how and where they wear the mones, the dose, etc. For me, I'll be honest, it's easier to just slap on the 4 products that have enough overlap that I cover most of my "mone bases" and wear that every day (Ascend + Cohesion + Xist + Taboo). These are the most powerful PXS Core products that contain I would say 80-90% of the mones that exist in the market and at concentrations to see effects without ghosting (for me). Then for specific situations like at night I may switch with evolve, in a business meeting stick with Ascend w/o cops, etc, in a fun night with friends maybe Vibe or Connections, etc.

I know for example SteveO likes to use APi in most situations, but APi for me feels underpowered and doesn't have enough of an Alpha vibe for work which is why I haven't used it (and I prefer Alcohol over oil because it hits fast and long range).

[Xcc]

knowledgeispower Valid points. And that's why we have research design for naturalistic settings.

I think Api would be underpowered for you because of the point that your wife responds so well to Ascend. When I think Ascend I think BUSINESS context first. But for women and Ascend, I think of a woman who is over 25, wants to get married, and wants a successful man. Since your wife is married to you (obviously, haha) and because she's probably over 25 and because you are very educated (successful), I'd stick to Ascend. Kudos to you for discovering how well copulins can work when you are in a relationship! You changed my mind even if it's just a bit of change.

I still want to emphasize Reason #2 here:

http://houseofpheromones.com/pheromones-stop-working-women/

I still encourage you to at least start thinking about one substitute for each of your favorites in case there is another "XiSt shortage" like we are having now.

I'm so happy for you that your marriage has gotten better and I'd like to see it continue to get better. I'd also encourage you to read John Gottman's book "What makes love last?"

[knowledgeispower]

knowledgeispower Valid points. And that's why we have research design for naturalistic settings.

I think Api would be underpowered for you because of the point that your wife responds so well to Ascend. When I think Ascend I think BUSINESS context first. But for women and Ascend, I think of a woman who is over 25, wants to get married, and wants a successful man. Since your wife is married to you (obviously, haha) and because she's probably over 25 and because you are very educated (successful), I'd stick to Ascend. Kudos to you for discovering how well copulins can work when you are in a relationship! You changed my mind even if it's just a bit of change.

I still want to emphasize Reason #2 here:

http://houseofpheromones.com/pheromones-stop-working-women/

I still encourage you to at least start thinking about one substitute for each of your favorites in case there is another "XiSt shortage" like we are having now.

I'm so happy for you that your marriage has gotten better and I'd like to see it continue to get better. I'd also encourage you to read John Gottman's book "What makes love last?"

Thanks! I'll check the book out, sounds like a good read.

Yes I'm definitely not done experimenting and #2 is very important. For me, the go-to mix I am trying to find (which I may have found with ACE-X w/cops) is an all around mix for every day even without the wife (men like to feel attractive and like their peers and boss to view them highly as well right?) So it's not just for the wife. APi seems a bit underwhelming for me as a go-to mix. I'll keep experimenting, but so far I haven't had any negative reactions at work with ACE-X that has me wary of wearing it. And yes I agree about the Xist shortage...but hey, we know the contents so we can make it if we need to as a last ditch effort lol (well ok, we don't really know the contents/concentrations/buffers/diffusion tech/secret molecules, etc) but we have a rough idea if worse comes to shove...I have a good enough supply of Xist right now to last me 1-2 years if I use it on a daily basis! Yes I bought that much!

[Xcc]

knowledgeispower Yeh, I stock up on mones for just these sorts of emergencies. Your ACE-X is tested and proven, right?

Yes, I think for your purposes you need more of that STATUS ka-pow. Api has status as secondary, with SOCIAL as primary for GOALS.

Gottman has been researching marriage for 30+ years and is practically peerless.

[knowledgeispower]

Yes ACE-X is working wonders for me

[Tenerife Guy]

You've just got to pick whichever products, from whichever vendor, suit you and your needs best. I currently have (purchased, not samples) 8 products from PSX, 4 from LAL, 2 from PT and one from APEX. Out of those 15, there are 2 which I won't replace when they run out; M3X (Apex) and AV (LAL). Both those products work for others, but M3X is like wearing water, whilst AV is too "serious".

One of the most powerful "fall-in-love" combo's is Xist + GOA(PT). I have tried many Xist combos with other PSX products, but none have worked so effectively. Xist on its own is good. GOA solo is mediocre. But combined they are magic.

My favourite bed-time mix is Evolve + SXD9 (LAL). You can do just about anything you want with her, and she'll keep wanting more.

Some products such as Ascend, SOB, BW, etc, can actually create long-term changes to your character, and I have the impression that they can also alter (increase) your natural test levels after long term use, so combination A which you used a year ago might not work as well as combination B today.

And whilst I agree that some vendors change their formulae (or their providers), we must also consider that we often become "immune" to some self effects after using a certain product regularly over time.

[knowledgeispower]

And whilst I agree that some vendors change their formulae (or their providers), we must also consider that we often become "immune" to some self effects after using a certain product regularly over time.

Or maybe we don't become immune but we become the person the self-effects are trying to achieve So for example Ascend w/cops makes you feel Alpha, but over time you become more Alpha because of Ascend and you do not "feel" different anymore. Just some thoughts...no evidence

You've just got to pick whichever products, from whichever vendor, suit you and your needs best.

That is the statement I have a problem with. How do you do that when you cannot control for so many variables as I mentioned in my above posts? You may have happened across what works for you by chance, but how do you know another combination of the infinitely possible combinations that exist would not suit you even better? Doesn't that make you feel upset, that you may be wearing a mediocre product when a better product exists, you just haven't tested it? That's my problem with wearing products that you don't know what their contents are...there is simply no way to know!

With PXS, if you like Cohesion, you'll want to test Crush because the primary mone is A1. If you like Taboo you'll want to test Evolve and SOB because the primary mone in eNONE. If you like Ascend you'll want to test Xist and APi because the primary mone is eRONE. You can more easily figure out which product combinations will work better for you, because you know what's in them and you know how to test them!

I have no idea how to test AV, SXD9, GOA, etc because I don't know what they have! It'd be like trying to find a needle in a haystack!

Heck, its why I refuse to try any research molecules with PXS. If you have time + money go right ahead, but its not for me, as I refuse to try something that is still unknown (although at least with PXS you have the comfort of knowing SteveO will eventually release the name of the mone in the research product!). With AD, you're stuck with P102 or P83, whatever the hell that is, you'll never know!

[Tenerife Guy]

@knowledgeispower: No product in the world, or even combo of products, will ever be a 100% perfect compliment for your own natural mone signature, metabolism and personality. In addition, the whole equation is made even more complicated by the fact that your targets might detect through your mone signature (natural or manipulated by products) a DNA pattern which is too close to her own, and you will therefore seem repulsive to her (on a subconcious plane). In addition, NO vendor lists all of their ingredients, let alone the ratios. So I agree, we cannot control the variables.

What we can do is narrow the field down by reading other users experiences on this and other forums. Evaluate an endpoint, narrow down a reasonable amount of products which gravitate towards that endpoint, then test. Steve O or any other supplier can sell you a mix which is an excellent general mix. But it's you who has to experiment with that mix, alone or in combos, to find out how it works for you. A knowledge of what a product contains is an advantage, but is not a fail-safe selection method. Trying to methodically calculate what will work for you based on what the vendor discloses about its formulae, whilst not having a clue what your own natural mone signature is saying, nor knowing the DNA compatibility / incompatibility of your female target, makes looking for a needle in a haystack seem somewhat optimistic.

I intentionally disregard 90% of what is (probably) in a product. If the general concensous of users is positive, I might request a sample when I order a previously tested product. If it gives me results, I'll order that product and test it solo and with other products. If I hadn't tested Xist + GOA, I would not have my current GF and I wouldn't have had sex with 3 others. No, I don't know what's in GOA. I know some of the ingredients in Xist. But I tried the combo and it worked. I reached my endpoint. That is the bottom line from my point of view!

The great thing about PXS, LAL and AT, is that they send samples. (PXS being the most generous). Never underestimate the value of these samples! Lately, I haven't bought one single product that I hadn't sampled previously. Test the sample solo a few times, then try a few combos with it. You'll might hit a brick wall or you might get laid. But if you don't experiment with an open mind, you're missing out on the best part of the party!

[knowledgeispower]

Tenerife Guy , that's perfectly fine. Not all people care like I do. Some people just want a product that works. But for me, I work in a lab environment every day of my life. I know first hand what a placebo effect is. It's a real effect, as in, a person can get cured from a disease simply because they think they are receiving a drug that will cure them. That's my problem with self reports. They are great, until you realize they may be influenced by everyone else. You buy Xist because its been touted as a friend zone reset, and guess what, it does what it says. I'm not taking away anything from the product, it probably DOES do what has been said and I have confirmed that myself in my own marriage; but the reality is, when you know what a product is expected to do, you will ultimately always have a subconscious placebo effect. But this isn't a bad thing! This is a good thing because the placebo will make you act in a way that actually achieves the results you want in the first place!

Don't get me wrong, mones work, they are powerful and their are scientific studies showing that they work; but the reality is that relying solely on user testimony is a crowd-speak of placebo effects for the most part. This is why real mone veterans can notice a difference between A314 revisions, yet most people will pickup any A314 bottle and get the effects they expect to see on the label.

My point is this: There is nothing wrong with using a product you don't know what it contains. But for actual purposes of tailoring a mix to your needs, its important to know.

Example: Are you going to be around a lot of males? You don't want a heavy A1 product.
Are you going to be around a lot of younger females? You don't want a heavy eNONE product
Are you going to be around of hot babes? You don't want heavy beta mones like a/b-nols.
Are you going to be around your boss? You want to damn make sure you got more eRONE than A1 around you!

Long story short, to me, knowing what is in your product is more important than anything else. Otherwise, its hard to attribute your effects to more than just a placebo effect because of what others have reported it "should" do. This is how you separate marketing hype vs reality. The real effects are there, but you have to harness the products to fit you, not the other way around. And that can only happen if you know what they contain in the first place.

[Xcc]

knowledgeispower Your point is clear. I find the best way in my experience to have an effective product is to balance status and empathy. Androstanone and xsp96 could be an example of that. What you are suggesting is very deep.

Consider this: at one point, no one knew what each pheromone did. So we had to test each one individually. The results and knowledge you want is still based on tests. Tests on individual molecules that were likely done in naturalistic settings, with few controls and heavy reliance on convergence in observations by people who were not trained researchers. With mixes, the problem is more complex. Although we may know what each molecule does, what do the molecules do together when combined? Is the sum of the parts greater than the whole?

Wow, so much for my philosophy of pheromones.