Those flirty married guys (ladies' perspectives appreciated!)

[Futureman]

My wife and I have had a few conversations about this lately. I really enjoy talking to women. My wife is perfectly fine with this, and enjoys me getting positive attention from them (when it happens). She likes the confidence it produces in me, and (obviously) so do I. We both recognize that there is a difference between "flirting with" and "hitting on" women. And as a married man, I avoid the latter with strict diligence. The trouble is how people perceive the dividing line between the two. You with me? For my part, what I have in mind (initiating and sustaining comfortable conversations, perhaps with a little teasing and friendly banter, etc.) may not even be considered flirting by some.

So there is the background to my question (or a set of loosely affiliated questions). Are you comfortable with a married man carrying on with other women (married or single) in the way I've described? Can a MM approach women with these narrowly confined aims without being perceived as a creep, a wayward husband, or a wanna-be PUA? I can't tell you how often I would like to strike up conversations in coffee shops, pubs, bookstores, etc. but often don't because I do not want to be viewed as a MM trying to be a player. My wife suspects any effort to do so would be interpreted in precisely that way. Is she right? I If a MM wants to strike up a conversation with you, what is the best way to do it without being seen as having ulterior motives?

Feel free to take any of these questions in any direction that seems sensible to you.

[Akelah]

I'm not sure I understand.. Are we talking about you approaching a stranger in a bar to initiate conversation, without having your wife with you participating this conversation?

[Morgaine]

I'd say it would totally depend on how you came across when interacting with people Futureman. I completely understand what you mean about it being flirty banter that's just a fun way of interacting with people, not intended to lead anywhere. Actually I remember reading somewhere that women will often flirt just as a form of social interaction, while many men automatically assume that flirting of any sort indicates sexual interest and intent, which can lead to confusion. Personally I've come across a couple of guys here and there that do the social flirting thing you're describing, and they've all been really lovely people- and I've never read their behaviour as creepy or sexually predatorial. I work with one man like this, and it's just his positive, upbeat, slightly cheeky way of interacting- it lightens the mood. So in general, as long as you don't present as coming on to them, I'd say go for it, but tread softly- just in case some women are used to men flirting for different reasons. Maybe bars and pubs are not ideal for this, as that's the kind of place it might be taken the wrong way.

A little harmless flirty behaviour here and there, when everyone knows it's nothing more, can be a wonderful thing. I think most people find the idea of a stranger showing enough passing interest in them to make a comment or have a little chat to be quite flattering.

[Futureman]

Akelah: maybe, although the way you phrased it may generate the wrong idea. I think the more common scenario is turning to someone in proximity to me and starting conversation regardless of whether my wife is around. Yes, this has occurred in bars before (and elsewhere), but it never involves conversation that would not occur if my wife were present. In my view, the initiating is intended to be a form of friendliness generated by natural curiosity about other people. For example, I saw a woman reading in a coffee house today and I was genuinely interested in what she was reading. I would have struck up a conversation had I not been in a hurry. And yes, I do like talking to women, but never in a way that would incline me to hide my marital status. Morgaine's description of "upbeat, slightly cheeky" conversation is what I have in mind. But conversations of substance interest me as well. Again, I will not deny I enjoy talking with women who enjoy talking with me. Ego boosts are nice to get especially when they come so infrequently.

[MissDarlynCherie]

When this happens to me it can go either way...can come off creepy or not. To me if the guy casually mentions his wife it becomes non creepy. I don't mean prattling on and on but just a simple..."my wife likes this too..." or whatever (if the conversation gets that far). I don't know if it is intentional on their part or not but to me it makes it clear that he is not hitting on me...just chatty.
It actually happened to me twice this week and that is what made the difference to me as far as feeling comfortable to chat without feeling wierd.
Does that make sense? Bringing the wife casually into the convo makes it apparent you are not being sneaky.

[CJW255]

Or they're being super sneaky

[MissDarlynCherie]

I was thinking the same thing after I wrote it....could be a super sneak situation.

[Akelah]

I asked because if your wife was there with you it would never be creepy at all. You said talk to women but didn't say alone, that's why I was confused about how would a conversation seem creepy.

Well if you're alone in some place approaching only pretty ladies alone and insert teasing on the conversation you just started, yes, it might seem bad even if you didn't say "hey let's move this conversation to my hotel room". I understand your wife point of view.

I personally like a random person alone or not, no matter the gender, who initiates conversation with me or my group. It's great and interesting and funny. If a polite compliment comes it's flattering of course. But the teasing part I like only from friends I already know and I'm at ease with, they know I have bf and I know if they have gf or wife, or not, nothing appears Sneaky there.

MDC is right, bringing your wife subject makes it all much better. But still, if I might ask, if there's only platonic interest why not talking to women in a group, or with your wife there? Or talking to men also? Or to very old ladies and very fat ones the same way?

Maybe your wife pointed this to you because although she trusts you, she doesn't feel so comfortable with the idea of you approaching ladies when's she's not around? Have you thought about whether you'd like it the other way around? If she was to approach men in a flirty way when you're not there?

There's something I did with an ex of mine, we'd go out and pretend we were not together, we were cousins or just friends. And we'd talk to both men and women, not hitting, interesting conversation, with some innuendos and flirty compliments to upbeat the convo as you said. It was always nice and everyone got out feeling good about themselves. Just like a normal friends meeting. I thought you were talking about something like this you know?

[Futureman]

I think we're in agreement, for the most part. Another dimension to to the present topic: I often wonder if the real danger emerges not with "upbeat, slightly cheeky" conversations but with those leading others to think that some "emotional connection" has been made. Most married folks know that such connections can occur with people other than one's spouse. Here is where I myself need to exercise caution. I often like to get past the small talk in order to see what people are really like. The ensuing conversations are often more memorable and could (I take it) spawn a desire to seek out and interact with certain people more often.

[NuTrix]

Here's a loopy opinion:
Everyone is a potential creep or stalker unless the conversation leads you to believe otherwise. Male or female.

If a woman comes up and begins a conversation with you, she could either be a genuinely interested but nice person - or a clingy possible stalker. Demeanor and the direction of conversation can be everything....is she pawing at you, looking at you like dinner - or a snack - making comments that seem too crude for a first introduction? Plenty of ways to be a little too "something" that will set your spidey senses tingling

You guys can be the same way. It doesn't sound like that is the route your taking though, am I right?

I'm a hugger - but I won't drape myself over someone who isn't my guy. I'm also a total flirt - I do it so much, I don't even realize it anymore. My husband totally gets it and understand that about me too. In my own eyes, I'm just a really happy, interested in meeting new people, curious person. Equal opportunity flirtation for both guys and gals too. But I can quickly identify people who may be clingy or "hoping for more" and shut it down quickly by bringing up my relationship - or emphasizing my happiness there in - when I become aware that I'm speaking to someone who seems to be hoping to find a love interest. It's sounds like you may be in the same boat?

I know my guy is coming home with me, and vise versa, but even just being friendly you run the risk of running into a coo-coo. WE know he and I are just having harmless fun.

I guess it comes down to who you are and how well you and your wife know/trust each other (and if you're honest with yourselves about those 2 things). The only people who may be offended by such behavior may well be those who feel it's "false advertising" when you're actually nice but not on the market If that's the case, then you can't help that their disappointment becomes resentment...that's their projection. Maybe they had an ex cheat on them or feel that if your in a relationship you shouldn't talk with the opposite sex unnecessarily. That could stem from how they were raised or a past experience - but those things are outside of your control AND intension, imo. What matters is how you and your wife feel about it and the intent of your interactions.

Steps off soapbox and backs away slowly....

[Futureman]

Great post, NuTrix. I think you're spot on.