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**KateD** · 02-16-2016, 11:28 AM

The Unisex massage oil after many wild sessions in the bedroom with other pheromone products was the one thing that convinced my husband that pheromones work.

Now, this may not be what you are asking for but just some input until the men come along.

He noted that every time we massaged each other, the sex was really good,"the best" according to him. I am not a man and I have no idea how sex feels to him but our sexual encounters with the massage oil didn't seem like the best we had. It wasn't wild, long all over the place sessions. It is was very deep and intimate.

I didn't try to seduce him but at that point I was trying to convince him that pheromones work.

She isn't single and you don't want last minute resistance. Pheromones won't do all the work. If a girl allows you to go that far and she isn't single it screams to me that she wants something to happen.

Last minute resistance is a process and you have to take time to go through the proper steps so that when you are ready to take that step with your massage oil, there is no guilt and no stopping.

I will let the guys handle it from here.

**RTBoss** · 02-16-2016, 05:14 PM

Think you handled it just fine, Kate!

**fdesa12** · 02-17-2016, 12:30 AM

Agreed! I think you handled it well Kate

I'll say this ahead of time: I do own the massage oil from PXS. I've never had the chance to use it. I have massaged one of my hot friends before and it totally could have lead to something if I didn't hold back. Massaging is so relaxing that any arousal usually meets less resistance due to the relaxation. The exception is if you don't trust the person massaging you.

Anyway for you, the key is to focus on just relaxing her first so start out with a massage that helps her destress. Communication is helpful here for 2 purposes:
1) Connection
2) You can usually tell how relaxed they are by how they respond i.e. alert and energetic? or starting to sound sleepy/enjoying the massage.

Something you can try out: talk slower and more relaxed. Hypnotists use this method to try to pull you into the "sleep".

So with the warming oil... try touching it with your nipples and you'll know how it likely feels like with her (I personally didn't like it). You can also try putting some on the head of your penis and if it's uncomfortable, that may be the case with her as well in those sensitive areas. Having said that, it really depends on what you do with it afterwards. If you're not sure still, you could always "accidentally" get it on one of her nipples and adapt to it. Probably best to have it on one hand, "accidentally" apply and if she likes, see if she'll allow continuing to massage them in. If she doesn't like, you got the other hand to "spread and thin" the application by massaging them anyway

. She'll probably be very resistant though

so you might want to ask if she wants to try it.

Anyway, physical touching is usually already the start of seduction. Try seducing someone through the internet without the steps of cybersexing. It's really, really hard unless the person is easily turned on with words.

So how can you go about seducing with massage? Easy. Keep on massaging and eventually focus on the erogenous zones. Massage around the neck, the small of her back, the area between the belly button and her clit, the inside of her thigh, the butt cheeks, the ears (lightly?), even lightly pulling the scalp! Build up into massaging these areas, test the waters, and keep communicating. If she's not resisting, push a little further. If she is resisting and says she feels uncomfortable, back off a bit and try to build up again. At some point (and if things go well), she should be relaxed and open. Also, she may be physically aroused and allow you to go further.

Now, if you pull back at the last moment, you can create a push/pull effect which might seduce her. Basically, tease her physically. And finally (it's up to you though), ask her how she feels. Both in terms of her day, and how the massage feels, and where next to massage.

By the way, what do you mean "not exactly single"? Is she in an open relationship? Does she have someone she's interested in but it isn't official yet? Or does she already have a boyfriend/girlfriend?

Well... since you said conservative, I'll assume boyfriend.

Finally, are there enough mones in the oil to make her sexual? I don't know. Based on the purpose and contents, I would hypothesize that its more intended to just open the door for you to go through easier. It's all in the mindset. I've used the warming oil on myself and I don't get aroused. Of course, I was using it for a stiff neck. You can imagine that the common denominator here is physical touching and mood that determines the course.

Hopefully this helped you in finding your answers.

**foxone** · 02-17-2016, 01:25 PM

Hi Fdesa and Kate, Thank you for your advice.

Not exactly single meaning that she has a boyfriend. I am saying that i need to tread carefully because the three of us are in the same social circle. If she ends up feeling uncomfortable i dont want there to be awkwardness every time we see each other. Although for some reason i feel like it would be less awkward if i successfully seduce her.

I had another opportunity and this time around i got her to wear clothing that is more "accessible". Shortly after starting i managed to slip her tanktop down to her waist while she was laying face down and didn't meet much resistance. I didn't fully cup her butt cheeks or anything. But as i progressed downwards i was able to massage the top part of her butt. The rest of the butt was covered with her shorts. But massaging from the bottom upward, i managed to massage the inner thighs and worked my way up to the lower outer cheeks while inside of her shorts. I also tried to use the lower outer cheeks to stimulate her genital area by pulling on the cheeks outward. I was not met with resistance at all. Although she didn't coo or moan with any sort of approval either. Shortly after that part she drifted off to sleep. She seemed like she had a long day so i didn't try to wake her up.

As she comes off as somewhat conservative, i dont think i will be able to get her laying face up while topless as that would require her to consciously rollover while she doesn't have a top on. So the accidentally getting warming oil onto her nipple wouldn't be that easy. I think i should just continue to escalate physically and seeing how receptive she is. The advice of focusing on her errogenous zones was great. I was already doing it naturally but i didn't consciously focus on them and therefore i left a few ones out. Perhaps the next time i will try the ears and go further up onto her butt cheeks. Although going full on the butt cheeks is a little harder if she isn't bottomless.

Any thoughts?
or advice on further progressing smoothly/discreetly?

**MMM** · 02-17-2016, 11:40 PM

I don't think it matters. If she's letting you give her a massage and she has a boyfriend, something that goes against the rules is running through her mind. Give her the massage like you just did, and once you're sure she's nice and warmed up, and you've played with her lower body (pulling the cheeks apart making sure those lower lips are getting stimulated is my move as well) ... just say in a somewhat low, firm and MANLY voice, "TURN OVER." It's as simple as it sounds. She's gonna turn over, or she's not gonna turn over. I'm betting she turns over. If she turns over, at normal, and continue on with your work.

**fdesa12** · 02-18-2016, 12:52 AM

I would agree with M&M. As a backup, probably have a towel ready to help cover her breasts. If she's comfortable enough, hopefully she'll turn over. As for getting some of the warming oil on her nipples, that's just opportunity you'll have to watch and wait for.

What you can do if/when she turns over is also massage right below the breast line and the sides of the armpits. You may want to be very gentle though as those areas hurt/bruise easily since they're the ribs.

How much talking did you do with her? You can almost do it like it's foreplay too, as if exploring her favorites, what makes her feel good, what doesn't work, etc... "Does this feel goooood?" "What would make it feeeel better"...

Anyway, the goal now should be to find the right time to transition from a mindset of getting her relaxed to getting her aroused. It seems she was so relaxed she KO'ed.

Speaking of which, this may be a decent time to wear Evolve. Apply it, wait for a bit (~2 hours?) for the transitioning point between social and sexuals, and hit it with your massaging magic skills

Unless your goal is to only use massage oil. In any case, I'm looking forward to the next update!

**foxone** · 02-18-2016, 04:03 AM

@fdesa12
@m&m

Thank you for both of your suggestions. I will keep those in mind and give those a try. I didn't think to ask her to turn over.

Actually, i forgot to mention on the second night i was already wearing a drop of evolve and one spray of wolf.
However, it was a drop of evolve oil from one of the small samples that you get from purchasing one of steve's other products. Did i wear too little? i dont think it did much and i applied it about a couple of hours before the relaxation began. Could it be possible that one drop from the small bottle is not the same sized drop from the regular bottle that i get when i order? I've read on the forums here that sometimes even 2 drops from a regular bottle of evolve could overdose it. That's why i only applied one drop. Do i need more since it's a small sample size bottle?

Thank you in advance and i will update as soon as something progresses!

**MMM** · 02-18-2016, 08:23 AM

This is my FAVORITE LEARNING TOOL. http://www.voyeurstyle.com/watch/315...using-massage/

Copy the link, save it, and study it!

Moderators, if it's too sexual, I won't get mad if you deleted it, but it's full of GREAT KNOWLEDGE and excellent tips! You can hear the cameras flashing as it's a demonstration of HOW TO. Keep a keen eye on her responses and the technique and points that causes the responses.

**KateD** · 02-18-2016, 08:39 AM

Being a woman myself. *Kate looks down to make sure* This girl has a b/f and she is allowing so much. I believe she is telling you without spelling it out that she wants something to happen and you are being fearful of rejection. I mean what is the worse that can happen. She already has a dude so you couldn't possibly want an ltr with her. I mean if she cheats on him, she may surely well cheat on you too.

You may wait too long and never get anything or just read the obvious signs and take the plunge. I believe the guys gave super on point advice and there isn't much to be done.

If I let a guy massage me in that manner,boyfriend or not I want to fk him#justsaying.

**foxone** · 02-18-2016, 01:18 PM

@M&M
Absolutely perfect video. Thank you for the link. Exactly what i was looking for.

@kate
Thank you for your input.
I dont think it's so much as the rejection itself. It's the potential social awkwardness afterwards in the social circle.
I'm still going to try though. lol
Too much fun not to try.

**MMM** · 02-18-2016, 04:04 PM

?Kate has spelled it out for you; and I see it the same way. Tell her to turn over! If she turns over, and covers herself with a towel or shirt, you're in! Massage around for a bit under whatever, and work your way to her pointers!!!! He who fears the move, loses. Two massages, and you still haven't manned up! Come on mannnnnnnnnnnnn!

**MMM** · 02-18-2016, 08:15 PM

And if by chance any REAL MASSAGE MASTERS stumbles across this thread, in the video at 9:09 he's rubbing points on her hips, and it's appears to be driving her nuts. I've been searching for more videos on that exact point, but no luck. If you have anything, please share. Thanks!

**2000GT** · 02-22-2016, 07:30 AM

Some really excellent pointers here. Key takeaways from this should be:

1. Turn. Her. Over. If she turns, then go for the dark side (geek moment, sorry)

don't wait, the longer you wait, the window of opp will close.
2. Keep those hands moving and never break contact. Very critical when giving a massage. Any break in contact can disrupt the vibe. If you need more oil, Keep one hand on her (massaging) while the other hand gets the oil.
3. Keep the oil warmed. Cold oil is like dumping a bucket of ice on her. Easy way to keep it warm is to let the bottle sit in a bowl of warm water by the side of your bed (or wherever you're doing this).
4. Push/pull is a good way to build tension (in a good way) and get her motor running. Don't do it too much otherwise she could become irritated. you'll have to judge her reactions for this.

The final point I want to make and it's a bit of a sobering fact:

This girl, her BF and you are all in the same social circle. She's demonstrated she's willing to cheat on her boyfriend with you, so don't expect a long term or even short term relationship. I wouldn't suggest any sort of emotional attachment at all. Cold as this sounds, if she cheats on him, she'll cheat on you. Additionally, there's a high risk the boyfriend could find out and that has potential risks to the social circle, yourself included since you're the one potentially cheating with her. She can always come back and say you initiated it (she may not but I've seen it happen before). There's also the risk of how her BF will react if/when he finds out. So keep all this in mind. I'm not trying to scare you, just want to make sure that you're going into this aware of the risks.

Good luck!

**angelo777** · 02-23-2016, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by KateD View Post

The Unisex massage oil after many wild sessions in the bedroom with other pheromone products was the one thing that convinced my husband that pheromones work.

Now, this may not be what you are asking for but just some input until the men come along.

He noted that every time we massaged each other, the sex was really good,"the best" according to him. I am not a man and I have no idea how sex feels to him but our sexual encounters with the massage oil didn't seem like the best we had. It wasn't wild, long all over the place sessions. It is was very deep and intimate.

I didn't try to seduce him but at that point I was trying to convince him that pheromones work.

She isn't single and you don't want last minute resistance. Pheromones won't do all the work. If a girl allows you to go that far and she isn't single it screams to me that she wants something to happen.

Last minute resistance is a process and you have to take time to go through the proper steps so that when you are ready to take that step with your massage oil, there is no guilt and no stopping.

I will let the guys handle it from here.

good kateD! its nice to read your comments

**foxone** · 03-31-2016, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by 2000GT View Post

2. Keep those hands moving and never break contact. Very critical when giving a massage. Any break in contact can disrupt the vibe. If you need more oil, Keep one hand on her (massaging) while the other hand gets the oil.

^^^^^^^ This... super important. While i was making my attempt last time i broke contact because it was getting so hot in the room so i took my hoodie off. She suddenly jumps up and asks if i am done. I told her no and for her to lay back down. But i dont think it was the same vibe anymore.
Maybe she was wet and felt guilty? Maybe the two drops of evolve oil that i applied kicked in and she got intimidated by it?

Or is this what Kate was referring to as last minute resistance?

**2000GT** · 03-31-2016, 11:54 AM

Yea, definitely need to keep things going. Plan ahead. Wear loose clothing. If you know it'll get warm in the room, get down to t-shirt and shorts. But DO NOT break contact. Even if it's not your hands, but try to keep one hand moving while you go for the oil. Some pour the oil on their hands, that can break contact. It's better to pour a bit on the area you're working on so that way contact is maintained. And don't let that hand just sit there, keep it moving too!

**foxone** · 04-01-2016, 03:05 PM

I forgot to add. When her and i are alone in the same room even just doing nothing she seems a little jumpy/akward. That's why i think she might've gotten turned on and backed off.

**elvin.tan77** · 04-19-2016, 10:53 PM

You think too much. Put yourself in this mindset. You're there to pleasure the lady on the massage table. Whatever type of pleasure, it's for her to choose. That doesn't mean you can't try to arouse her. I've known a few girls that goes for massages or ask for massages just so they could get laid or masturbated by other guys.

Personal experience, I was giving a running friend a massage as she was having back ache issues. It was a slow and sensual one with me straddling her leg. I was just mainly concentrating on her lower back but found that the knots went all the way up to her shoulder area. Asked her to unhook her bra so I can work on the length of her spine. Slow push and pull and some circular deep tissue massage got her so relaxed she was ready to go to sleep. So I just lay down at her side and let her sleep. Gave her a peck or 2 on her forehead and next thing you know, she was pulling me in for a deep kiss. Things progressed from there on.

The point is, give them a good massage by:
1. Give them a good Massage. Don't just make them feel good, but work on some trouble spots too. This will help to wake them up and make them feel even better and be in the mood.
2. Incorporate in massage on their erogenous spots. These could be side of ribs, outer thighs, inner thighs, upper butt cheeks, nape of necks, shoulders (work your hand to the front to pull on those muscles near the upper breasts too), Back of Knees. Make these feel sensual.
3. Commit and make your move. This is what you're missing right now bro. As you've said, she's the conservative type. She ain't gonna ask you to do it. If you're not sure about her response, you can try by working your way into the hotspots. Example, while massaging side of ribs, work your way deeper in to cup part of the breasts. Or while massaging her thighs, work your way up toward her pussy.

Well, here's hoping you score soon. Looking forward to your next update.

**Jimmy42** · 04-20-2016, 08:08 PM

Work her feet long and slow. My woman melts in no time and before long I've pretty much got the green light for whatever I desire! ????????

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