Women's pheros to avoid around women.

[SecretV]

back on track. I found that babe can make some women rather stand offish

[eternitys_child]

because i stated that i defer to science if they could and would prove me wrong regarding that. the point of discussion was regarding the way things are regarding sisterhood and it seems we got off from that and into something different.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html

#sisterhood

TL;DR: It was an idealistic vision swiftly shattered by the nightmare reality: constant bitchiness, surging hormones, unchecked emotion, attention-seeking and fashion rivalry so fierce it tore my staff apart.

My deputy, Sarah, the general manager, first showed how much style mattered when she advertised for an office assistant and refused to hire the best-qualified girl because she could not distinguish Missoni from Marc Jacobs.

#leadership

[Ildergreier]

My statements definitely pertained to your previous comment and did not derail.

You sounded absolutely sure that catty behavior did not evolve from women living in a male dominated society and in fact comes from women not being "biologically" or "psychologically" capable of widely forming loyal bonds with one another. I addressed your statement. Not sure where you're getting the sense of "derailment".

He became catty. lol

[Ildergreier]

This.

[Isis]

I retract my triggering statements as it seems to have derailed the point of contributing my experience.

My statements definitely pertained to your previous comment and did not derail.

You sounded absolutely sure that catty behavior did not evolve from women living in a male dominated society and in fact comes from women not being "biologically" or "psychologically" capable of widely forming loyal bonds with one another. I addressed your statement. Not sure where you're getting the sense of "derailment".

[Delight]

People like people who are like them or who are like who they want to be. The way that people treat other people has a lot to do with themselves, with who they are at the core. I have a few relationships with women who are like family to me. I’ve been able to maintain these relationships for many years. People come and go, and it’s hard to meet people who have your best interest in mind. The few women I’ve met with these qualities, I held on to them. I don’t care what they look like, where they’re from or their education level. I don’t have time for negative people or for people that want to use me. I’ve learned that it’s better to be alone than to be with the wrong people.

[Liaria]

Of the pheros I've tried, only Celebrity has made women act negatively towards me (but men loooove it on me).

I normally get along really well with women, I definitely believe in womanly bonding! It makes me sad that you guys have had predominately negative relationships with women. I think one thing that has really helped me in this is appreciating the value in the archetypal femininity. It's become a pretty dirty word in society because feeling, tenderness, and receptivity are often viewed as inferior to masculine qualities like logic, toughness, and goal-orientation. But femininity has a lot of good qualities, and a healthy person and society needs both to flourish.

To add to the intellectual discussion, I read a paper from an evolutionary psychology perspective whose premise was that each sex has their own "hierarchy" where competition ensues for sexual selection. The most brutal competition between females was observed in polyandrous species, whereas polygynous species typically had much less competition. Here's the link is anyone is curious.

[eternitys_child]

I retract my triggering statements as it seems to have derailed the point of contributing my experience.

[Isis]

With that being said, I think we need to take into account the social conditioning you mention, because that's just the reality of society. Whether it be wrong or right is a different story. But yes, in my experience, the very same cattiness you and the other women on this thread have mentioned is precisely the reason where I draw my archetypal viewpoint from.

If you think this is where the cattiness stems from, then yes it absolutely does have to do with, " gender roles in the community as in males having status while women are not holding as much status".

If women were commonly found in positions of power and were praised and coveted for those reasons, our sense value wouldn't lie so heavily on appearance. Women's self critical inner voice wouldn't tear another woman's appearance down because she would value herself in other ways.

And in terms of conniving, back stabbing and manipulation being the reason for the difficulty in finding a sisterhood; this absolutely does have to do with women "not holding as much status". These tactics have been used historically by women to achieve success under the stigma of being the "weaker sex". Just take a look at women who try to be direct in the way a man would be. They are labeled ball busters or diminished for not fitting societal beauty standards.

Again, if women werent criticized for not being feminine enough and were commonly found in positions of power or in your words, "held status" equal to or more than men, catty behavior would be less prevalent

[eternitys_child]

I disagree. If women were not socially conditioned to be valued for their appearance cattiness between women would decrease exponentially. If you read the accounts of the women who posted in this thread, they're deterred from forming friendships due to catty behavior between women. I'm a woman, I know where this behavior stems from.

Also, by biology and psychology? Citations? Women by nature are much more social than men...so psychologically women should be the ones who are able to forge stronger communal bonds with one another.

I was just stating my experience watching the behavior of women and men in group settings. I don't have citations since it was an opinion based on anecdotal evidence, and will defer to actual psychological and behavioral science that could prove me right or wrong.

With that being said, I think we need to take into account the social conditioning you mention, because that's just the reality of society. Whether it be wrong or right is a different story. But yes, in my experience, the very same cattiness you and the other women on this thread have mentioned is precisely the reason where I draw my archetypal viewpoint from.

[Isis]

Nothing at all to do with gender roles in the community as in males having status while women are not holding as much status..... It really isn't. I just don't think the female psychology and/or biology is designed for the sisterhood type of bonding.

I disagree. If women were not socially conditioned to be valued for their appearance cattiness between women would decrease exponentially. If you read the accounts of the women who posted in this thread, they're deterred from forming friendships due to catty behavior between women. I'm a woman, I know where this behavior stems from.

Also, by biology and psychology? Citations? Women by nature are much more social than men...so psychologically women should be the ones who are able to forge stronger communal bonds with one another.

[SecretV]

my own sexuality is a question mark (no. I don't have doubts about it. I just don't really care about the gender of the person I'm attracted to). Sticky is bi. I do have some straight female friends but not to that level of trust. Then again. Same applies to lesbian and bi women.

[eternitys_child]

being someone who's managed communal living in the United states (4 womens houses and 3 mens houses)

I can confirm to you that sisterhood, while amazing in theory, does not exist to the degree that brotherhood does. Granted I have seen some long term female to female bonds come out of these communities, the notion of "sisterhood", as it is being described in this context, is not what I would describe it as.

Whereas I can confirm multiple brotherhoods that have come out of these houses, one in particular that I actually belong to.

Nothing at all to do with gender roles in the community as in males having status while women are not holding as much status..... It really isn't. I just don't think the female psychology and/or biology is designed for the sisterhood type of bonding.

Full disclosure, in some other communities that I'm a part of, there IS such a thing as sisterhood, and they meet every Thursday but the context of the situation is completely different that it would be unfair to include that type of sisterhood in this comparison (they're a group of young sober women who have an AA meeting every thursday. When it comes to life or death trying to get off the drugs and alcohol....... this type of group setting is lifesaving)

[Isis]

^I've found that lesbians and bisexual women tend to be less catty. Have you tried being friends with someone that was lesbian or bisexual?

[SecretV]

lafemme I have one close female friend Sticky. While I have a few close male friends Sticky has gotten catty in the past.

[Bosrel]

In my old town all my friends were female. I tend to bond easier with women. Now the thing about that is I was madly in love with one of them and never said anything, we’re still friends to this day some 12+ years later. I recently confessed my feelings to a girl at work that I had been completely infatuated with and even though she already knew how I felt, somehow once I made it official, our friendship went straight to hell. I’m now coming to terms with the idea that I don’t want to be “just friends” with her but I think she made that decision for me and started treating more like a work colleague than friend. In my experience it is easier to be “just friends” with women when there’s no attraction or at least no emotional feelings. I’ve been attracted to several female friends but only been “in love” with a select few and being around those few who don’t share those feelings is an emotional roller coaster because you enjoy their company but it kills you that they are with someone else and not you.

[lafemme]

While it's steadily becoming more equal, men still tend to be in positions of power compared women. There is still gender wage gap. Women are still (mostly) valued for their appearance vs what they contribute to society (which propogates catty behavior that usually stems from jealousy of physical appearance). Imagine if women were widely valued for other accomplishments, makes me wonder how the competitive behavior would manifest. Maybe in the same way men are when they are competition with one another. I hope it changes! But I think that will take years and years of social conditioning

I agree that most developed Nations probably don't have a true patriarchal society, it's still closer to that than it is to an egalitarian one. At least in the US.

I've had good female friends but they're few and far between. Can't say I've had good male friends (if any, I can count one who happens to be an ex) as most have said, "I'm not friends with women" or "I can't be friends with a woman who I am attracted to"

Me too, I can't say I have any true male friends besides the ones I borrowed from my older brother.

[lafemme]

All I ever got from women is drama, competitive behaviour and backstabbing. So no. Sis code doesn't exist as far as I'm aware.

Really? Do you have at least one woman in your life who you've not experienced this with. I've dealt with quite a bit of assholish women but more often than not, women who I've no prior experience with have been very kind, uplifting, and complimentary to me, upon meeting. I've experienced more drama with men than I have with women. They're always crying!

[lafemme]

Perhaps there is women who experiences it, but I have not.

I'm very sorry to hear that. All my good friends are women, and they're family to me. I trust and love them unconditionally.

[Isis]

While it's steadily becoming more equal, men still tend to be in positions of power compared women. There is still gender wage gap. Women are still (mostly) valued for their appearance vs what they contribute to society (which propogates catty behavior that usually stems from jealousy of physical appearance). Imagine if women were widely valued for other accomplishments, makes me wonder how the competitive behavior would manifest. Maybe in the same way men are when they are competition with one another. I hope it changes! But I think that will take years and years of social conditioning

I agree that most developed Nations probably don't have a true patriarchal society, it's still closer to that than it is to an egalitarian one. At least in the US.

I've had good female friends but they're few and far between. Can't say I've had good male friends (if any, I can count one who happens to be an ex) as most have said, "I'm not friends with women" or "I can't be friends with a woman who I am attracted to"